Thursday, July 08, 2010

Green belt homes plan for Purbeck cancelled

Plans to build thousands of homes on green belt land in Dorset have been shelved.

Posted by at
Labels:

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

That is wonderful news for the three areas outlined in the article. But what about Swanage?

8/7/10 1:52 pm
Anonymous said...

Hyperbole.

RDA's plans have been dropped, Councils can, and hopefully will still build.

8/7/10 7:36 pm
Anonymous said...

But what is the point of building new housing if there are no jobs to sustain an increased population? The only people moving to Swanage are retirees or second home owners, not young families. We MUST make housing affordable for our young people or they will leave and Swanage will change for ever. We MUST create jobs that make living in Swanage possible for young people. If we don't, they will have no option but to leave. I suppose if they make enough elsewhere they can return as retirees.

8/7/10 7:57 pm
Anonymous said...

We MUST create jobs that make living in Swanage possible for young people. If we don't, they will have no option but to leave. I suppose if they make enough elsewhere they can return as retirees.

There will not be any jobs, to far out for light industry and manufacturing, the tourist industry is dying because PDC is doing all it can to destroy it. The retirees you are on about want no life in Swanage all they want is to shut the town down by 9pm just ask the carnival people, 1 person yes 1 person complains to PDC and the music has to stop early democracy is dead in swanage.

There is no back up to anyone who wants to invest in bussines in this area all STC and PDC do is pander to the vocal minority, if the railway get the funding you can bet some in comers will want to stop the trains noise and polution you see, not that it will give employment to many poor souls.

Just ONE person that all it took. And no I have not DOCTORED those figures.

8/7/10 8:46 pm
Anonymous said...

So stop blogging, become a vocal minority, and prove your point.

8/7/10 9:30 pm
Anonymous said...

Build on the green belt. Who cares? People come before the environment. I have that on good authority.

9/7/10 12:29 pm
Anonymous said...

"democracy is dead in swanage"

It's always been my understanding that democracy in Swanage was bought.

9/7/10 1:22 pm
Anonymous said...

if the railway get the funding you can bet some in comers will want to stop the trains noise and polution you see,

Thank goodness for incomers. Why should the place stink from the clouds of sulphurous that drift down Station Road. It is pretty clear that many residents don't give a stuff for what the town looks like or the state of the environment so long as the tills are ringing.

9/7/10 3:33 pm
Anonymous said...

Before building all these house we must have quality jobs.

That's a complete and utter load of tripe that keeps coming up on this blog, and in many other places.

It's a stupid and useless cliché.

Approx 70% of people 'own' – Mortgage, 'death grip' – their homes. The most expensive thing that 99.99% of these people buy is their home. The other 1/3rd rent, for various reasons, mainly cuz they can't afford to buy. This means that 2/3rds of the population own 100% of the homes, and many of those make whacking great profits out of their wealth, leaving the poor to struggle on skint.

Maybe you consider that if 2/3rds are doing well then that's OK. I don't. 70% of this countries money is tied up in property, maybe you think that's OK. I don't.

The answer is not to raise wages it is to lower costs. The Co-op announce a 20% discount on all their products, DCC slash Council Tax by 10%, Southern Elec say 'have your electricity for free – we all cheer.

Build cheap houses - the most expensive thing that 99.9% of people will ever buy - and people scream, gnash their teeth and wail.

Stick with your cliches and nothing will ever change, accept that the chances of any 'decent' employment in Swanage are slim, and that we will remain poor – Swanage Mean Average Wage £20K, Swanage Median and Modal household income 12 - £15K. Accept that fact and build enough houses so that nearly everyone can live in decent accommodation.

That's how Swanage happened, up until the '80's we had enough decent accommodation. Building the Cauldron Barn, and the Benlease ghettos, selling off Council housing has left Swanage in a parlous state.

Build Social housing, take the pressure out off the market, and make the people of Swanage comfortable.

9/7/10 5:00 pm
Anonymous said...

Sounds good, except:

-Who will pay to build these subsidised homes?

-Once built, how can we prevent them rising in price to match privately-owned homes?

-What's to stop a home owner selling his home for lots of money and buying one of these cheap homes?

-What's to stop people flooding into Swanage to snap up these bargain priced homes?

-Finally, Conservative governments don't do socialised housing. As a matter of fact, New Labour didn't, either.

So, my point about higher wages remain relevant as they are the only way young people in Swanage can buy a home.

Let's not forget that renting is a viable option, too, particularly if young people may need to move to find work.

9/7/10 10:45 pm
Anonymous said...

Sounds good, except:

Thanks.

-Who will pay to build these subsidised homes?

Sadly that's the crucial point, but the LO (Landowner) even at 50% affordable will still make a large profit.

-Once built, how can we prevent them rising in price to match privately-owned homes?

Social Housing will be owned by the Purbeck Housing Trust and is for rent at affordable levels. PDC don't seem to be building to sell – check Purbeck Gate, or speak to PDC. If people can rent at affordable levels then they may be able to save a deposit and raise a Mortgage.

-What's to stop a home owner selling his home for lots of money and buying one of these cheap homes?

See above.

-What's to stop people flooding into Swanage to snap up these bargain priced homes?

See above – the other 50% will be at Market Value and anyone can buy those.

-Finally, Conservative governments don't do socialised housing. As a matter of fact, New Labour didn't, either.

Old Cons – true, New Labour – partially true, New Con/Lib - ? Purbeck Gate 75ish affordable rent – 50 went to people with Wool postcodes, the other 25 to BH19/20 postcodes.

So, my point about higher wages remain relevant as they are the only way young people in Swanage can buy a home.

Nope.

Let's not forget that renting is a viable option, too, particularly if young people may need to move to find work.

Renting is the only option, unless a miracle happens and the majority of Swanage suddenly gets rich. It would be nice, but …...

10/7/10 6:11 am
Anonymous said...

"So, my point about higher wages remain relevant as they are the only way young people in Swanage can buy a home."

Yep.

Most private investors (and humble property owners like you and me ) will not invest in the scheme you propose - unless there are huge incentives, currently not available, such as reduced or eliminated capital gains taxes.

10/7/10 7:59 am
The Postman said...

I think I understand the plans a bit more now. While the Government's targets have been scrapped, it's still up to PDC to define its own targets, to meet the needs that are believed to still be there.And they seem to be keeping the targets as in the current consultation. The question now, perhaps, is do we need to build the estates that are now being planned, in anticipation of possible need, or do we build as and when development opportunities arise — as has happened over the years anyway?

10/7/10 8:05 am
Anonymous said...

I refer you back to my 7.36 post, that's the second response.

A tad worrying when a member of the public interprets the Meeja hype faster than an elected member!

10/7/10 8:25 am
Anonymous said...

"The question now, perhaps, is do we need to build the estates that are now being planned, in anticipation of possible need, or do we build as and when development opportunities arise — as has happened over the years anyway?"

In anticipation? So it's OK to have over a 1000 people on the waiting list?

Streuth!

10/7/10 1:25 pm
Anonymous said...

That bit about higher wages - nope!

"If people can rent at affordable levels then they may be able to save a deposit and raise a Mortgage."

Also, if there was enough property then. maybe, the ridiculous house prices we have will, um, stabilise (drop!).

10/7/10 1:28 pm
Anonymous said...

I had a discussion about ten years ago with a prominent Swanage estate agent, about my concern that he and his cronies were over inflating the intrinsic value of property here.

His response: "Damn right - we want every penny of profit we can make."

My rejoinder: "What about the future for young people in Swanage who won't be able to afford a home here?"

His answer: "They can move away. Anyway, I'll be long gone by then."

He isn't, but he is no longer selling property in Swanage. He doesn't look a happy man, so the old adage that money does not create happiness may be true.

10/7/10 6:11 pm
Anonymous said...

We have a 'cheap' house for sale, four bedrooms, no less! 'Cheap' as defined by local property price levels, that is. That's what drew us here, to this house, now we can't wait to leave and go back to whence we came, where our friends are, I might add!

Not a sole from the Swanage area has come to view ... owners wanting to move away from here cannot merely 'give' their homes away to locals, but if it were at all possible, our house would be best sold to a local family. I would discount the price for that to happen, but I know it won't make much odds.

What's wrong with joint ownership between two families wanting to get on the property ladder? It's been done before, elsewhere, but hereabouts people just moan and don't look to alternatives, they wait to be provided for.

It has always been hard to buy your first home, regardless of where you live. It was really hard for me and my wife when we first bought, we know the score. If locals do not want to commute or move to where homes are cheaper and jobs more likely to pay improved salaries, then what can really be done? Compromise is a good word, and an option.

11/7/10 4:51 pm
Anonymous said...

"I had a discussion about ten years ago with a prominent Swanage estate agent, about my concern that he and his cronies were over inflating the intrinsic value of property here. "

There is no such thing as an intrinsic value to property. It is worth what someone will pay and that is very largely determined by what they can borrow. Its a meaningless concept, there is absolutely no way of measuring a value as distinct from a price. The other thing an estate will be able to tell you is that most people go round them all and instruct the one who says he can get most for their house. It is not a normative question, it is simply how markets operate.

11/7/10 6:16 pm
Anonymous said...

6.16 What's is your point? The previous post uses the word 'intrinsic' in a perfectly acceptable way to make an entirely valid comment. Your 'observation' serves no other useful purpose other than to lead one to assume you have little else to do but split semantic hairs.

Here's the point of that post: Swanage estate agents encouraged inflation of property prices since 1996, well above national norms, without any concern for the effects on locals particularly the young. The poster had this from the horse's mouth - one former estate agent. I find that shocking. You parse words.

12/7/10 6:58 am
Anonymous said...

It takes two to tango. The price of property in Swanage is driven by buyers from outside the town. If they are willing to pay a premium to buy here our prices will be higher than elsewhere. My point was that blaming Swanage estate agents for rising prices is nonsense. What were they doing that agents in other places were not doing? If you think they caused an anomalous rise here you need to show they behaved differently to agents in places that did not show the same rise.

Of course I parse what I read.

12/7/10 10:55 am
Anonymous said...

I was commenting on the estate agent's clear lack of empathy for what this trend was going to do to the young people of Swanage. I surmise that in 'your world' his indifference is admirable, and tough luck on those in Swanage who can no longer live here?

At least concede that he should have kept this comment to himself and not blurt it out quite brazenly to a client?
He was very vocal and very confident when he said it. I was simply a client selling a home through him at the time. I am not against profits or successful businesses. His comments stuck in my mind as uncaring and disdainful. You weren't there. Parse that!

12/7/10 11:23 am
Anonymous said...

I agree it was not exactly tactful and was something best not said, however, I do not know what had been said that prompted the remark.

If you use a terms like "intrinsic value" you can only mean that a dwelling has a value that can be expressed on pounds but is different from the price it can sell for. There are theories of value and there are theories of price. They are different things. Marx's labour theory of value for example tells us nothing about what commodities sell for. He based it on the amount of socially necessary labour needed to make the commodity. (the qualification is important - simply making something in a more time consuming way does not increase its value.)

What you seem to me to be saying is that there is a value in a dwelling that has nothing to do with its price. It is not playing with words. They are quite different things.

A very interesting book called "Freakonomics" was published a few years ago. The author looked at how estate agents in the USA market their own houses compared to the way the way they sell other peoples and found that the prices they recommended to others was generally lower than the price of their own homes although they were prepared to wait longer for a buyer. This corresponds to anecdotal evidence locally that estate agents take their time and get a good price for their own houses. This points to them generally having a restraining effect on prices the complete opposite of what is claimed here. I suspect that if you were to ask a sample of agents whether they would rather have £10,000 commission in a weeks time or £11,000 in a years time the answer would be obvious.

12/7/10 6:32 pm
Anonymous said...

Build on the green belt. Who cares? People come before the environment. I have that on good authority.

Please be more specific. Not all people come before the environment. Only people that need a home and not an investment 'plaything'.

12/7/10 6:42 pm
Anonymous said...

Well what did we all think of the Thursday evening 'drop in'. In total contradiction to what the government are saying 'that there is no funding', it seems here in Swanage everything is up for grabs. The Hospital, Health Centre and Ambulance Station can be rebuilt on a different site with the promise of improved services. The sea front can be redesigned. Community benefits can be offered by the developers in the way of a new sports facility, or a new improved road connecting Northbrook and Washpond Lane and 100 affordable homes can be built. Additional amenities can be offered a the Swanage Middle School Site.

It seems that the supermarket issue has gone onto the backburner. Wareham are having to deal with the negative impacts of this one.

Is any of this really going to happen, or are we being blinded.

Is is a case of 'Swanage you are always moaning about something' now we are giving you the opportunity to create something inspirational - throw everything into the pot, stir it up and see what we come up with? One problem, where is all the funding for this coming from?

12/7/10 6:57 pm
Anonymous said...

Our pockets.

12/7/10 7:16 pm
Anonymous said...

Given the glacial speed with which these things are decided the fashion for hair shirt economics will be long past when the contracts are dished out. In any case, leaving the planning until the government is trying to fatten the economy to win the next election is pointless.

12/7/10 8:33 pm
Anonymous said...

"Well what did we all think of the Thursday evening 'drop in'."

Getting the traffic off the seafront would be marvellous. Having a road along there is a left-over from the 1920s when it was probably looked on as a way of attracting the affluent with their new fangled motors. Its time to win it back from the car now,

12/7/10 9:23 pm
Anonymous said...

Shore Road was traffic free a few summers ago, when the beach was being recharged. STC has not repeated the exercise. I do not see the need to close it in the off season, but May 15-Sept 30, yes, or Easter through Oct. half term, yes. I suspect STC/PDC or whoever decides likes to leave it open for the parking infraction income it generates (if and when the meter person is doing his/her job, which seems rare these days). I fear that a little kiddie will get hit by a car squeezing by all the illegally parked cars. Swanage does not seem to think much about young families or kids these days. Are we a not a family friendly town?

13/7/10 8:58 am
Anonymous said...

Headline News-

"Dorset County Council and Purbeck District Council have decided to build a 'county reception park' for use of all travelers in Dorset, to be constructed in Herston, Swanage. All travelers in Dorset will be redirected to this site, set on attractive green belt land next to Swanage Middle School. Up to 1000 caravans will be accommodated on this site, and bone fide travelers may remain for up to eleven months for a nominal maintenance and sanitary fees.

Said the Director of Travelers' Liaison for Dorset County Council:
"This reception and resident centre will be state of the art, enabling travelers to remain in one place - Swanage - for an extended period of time; to integrate and become part of a town that, quite frankly we don't care about in any way, shape or manner."

This is clearly satire, but such an announcement would not surprise me, given the abundance of evidence that Swanage is deemed second rate by Purbeck and Dorset Councils.

13/7/10 9:23 am
Anonymous said...

So to get back to the topic regarding Green Belt plan being cancelled, yes it has in some parts of Purbeck, but not, it would seem, in Swanage. There is no doubt that there is a need for affordable housing. But does this need to involve the wholesale destruction of one of the most important landscapes in Swanage, notice the "Preferred Option B" at Herston? where else from a major road (or even a minor one, come to that), do you see an uninterrupted view of the Purbeck Hills?

Building on Site B would be planning vandalism of the highest order. People come to Swanage (and spend their money) because of lanscapes such as these, but if that landscape is destroyed then they may not come...

I accept that there is no quick fix solution here, but the destruction of important landscapes should not be one of them.

13/7/10 9:34 am
Anonymous said...

With all due respect, and knowing I may offend some, the view driving into Swanage from Corfe is not exactly enhanced by the housing to the right.

We aren't talking about a world class image here. Let's be realistic. Affordable housing trumps an already compromised view.

13/7/10 6:04 pm
Anonymous said...

I guess that you're all young, not local, or selfish.

I'm born and bred. Dad remembers Swanage and Herston being separate entities. The High Street was a dirt track. The subsequent housing was needed. I remember going for cross-country runs before the Cauldron Barn Ghetto was built, but it was needed. I lived in Herston. I used to play and then cycle and then motorcycle, where the Benlease Ghetto now is, it was needed.

We now need more housing, so we're going to lose some more open space.

People or fields. What a difficult choice!

13/7/10 6:31 pm
Anonymous said...

Absolutely agree. You can build sensitively and still maintain some of the good aspects.

My worry is that new affordable homes will become second homes within a few year.

Where are the jobs for the people who will live in these affordable homes?

13/7/10 7:22 pm
Anonymous said...

Absolutely agree. You can build sensitively and still maintain some of the good aspects.

My worry is that new affordable homes will become second homes within a few year.

Where are the jobs for the people who will live in these affordable homes?

13/7/10 7:22 pm
Anonymous said...

"With all due respect, and knowing I may offend some, the view driving into Swanage from Corfe is not exactly enhanced by the housing to the right.

We aren't talking about a world class image here. Let's be realistic. Affordable housing trumps an already compromised view."

The fact that the view is compromised on the right does not mean that the same should be allowed to happen on the three green fields (SITE B) to the left. The landscape here is spectacular and within an area designated an AONB. It is also, according to a prominently displayed sign the 'Gateway to the Jurassic Coast' and this as we all know is a World Heritage Site. Pretty special.

I am not disputing the fact that there is a need for affordable housing in Herston and Swanage. It should not, however, be built on the back of unaffordable housing provided by the likes of Savills (Herston Site B) and Western Design Architects (Swanage Site D). Sandbanks is their usual haunt but it's full and there will be no more "garden grabbing" under the coalition government. There are those who felt that it would only be a matter of time before the Sandbanks effect reached this area. This would raise house prices here even further and where would that leave those struggling to find affordable housing?

Building more houses is not the answer. Let's look at what has been built already and question why these buildings can't be lived in. What's happening to the houses at Newton Knapp? What an embarrassment that site is. There must be a way of finishing the houses and letting them out at a fair rent to local people. Then there are all the empty flats over shops. I understand that there are also a considerable number of flats which are simply not selling. Fill all of these with people and then, and only then, start to consider building more houses. But please remember to leave the fields alone!

13/7/10 9:10 pm
Anonymous said...

Newton Knapp is overpriced in this recession. People do no want to live in substandard flats over shops.
Landlords are not going to let them to those who cannot afford them.

You place a field of grass above the needs of a young family in Swanage, trying to start off life here? Grass trumps lives. NIMBYism trumps community support. Gotcha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Egm0j_p1A

14/7/10 8:31 am
Anonymous said...

George Carlin nailed it right on the head!

14/7/10 4:16 pm
Anonymous said...

If you believe that then your as gullible as his his audience!

14/7/10 6:34 pm
Anonymous said...

Gullible? Perhaps yes, perhaps no, but at least I have an opinion, and I had a good laugh with George Carlin. You seem a miserable so and so. Have you won any converts today?

14/7/10 8:07 pm
Anonymous said...

Converts?

You're supporting the false prophet.

I don't need others to voice my opinions, he said happily!

15/7/10 6:34 am
Anonymous said...

Lets not kid ourselves that visitors or would be residents come to Swanage because of the views across Herston fields to the downs. There are plenty of views all around the town and those wouldnt be missed. The fields are the ideal spot for new housing given that most employment is down the road through Corfe and Wareham. Yes, more traffic or a commuter rail link? Modern day architects must be able to better the housing you pass on the right as you come into Herston, so never fear. The density will be a problem to the eye of many but hey, thats the case everywhere. Oh and theres a short term bonus - local employemnt !

15/7/10 12:22 pm
Anonymous said...

It is never a happy thought to lose a green field, but sometimes we have to do what is necessary. Housing, properly designed and sensitively sited, would not be as bad as some might think (the Morrish development in Stoborough as a good example). I would be much more concerned if that area became and out of town superstore, but it looks as though Wareham has drawn the short straw on that one! As someone posted on this site before, life is full of compromises. If we have to do it, let's get it done right!

15/7/10 12:33 pm
Anonymous said...

" I would be much more concerned if that area became and out of town superstore"

So what about the enormous healthcare facilities they are proposing? Half the lower field is being proposed for just that!

15/7/10 9:18 pm
Anonymous said...

My concern about a superstore is over the increase in traffic and the effect it would have on etablished
shopping in Swanage centre. I agree with you that, either way, there will be a large development there.

16/7/10 7:47 am
Anonymous said...

I remember going for cross-country runs before the Cauldron Barn Ghetto was built, but it was needed.

It was only needed because a developer wanted to line his pockets. 'Needed' needed by whom ??

14/8/10 7:07 pm

Post a Comment

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)