Friday, October 16, 2009

The First/Primary School Debate

All comments encouraged.

Posted by Anonymous to swanageview at 11:45 PM
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38 comments:

Anonymous said...

Is someone able to post up to date information about what is happening about the First Schools in Swanage and Langton. I think there are meetings going on, but we (the people of Swanage) don't know what is being said or suggested.
Thanks

18/10/09 10:51 pm
Anonymous said...

There is absolutely no truth in the rumour that St George's school does not wish for its children to mix with those of St Marks. The only statement that is true is that the community,parents,staff and governors of St George's wish for this school to remain in the village of Langton Matravers.

The children, staff and governors of both these schools have a very good relationship with each other. We do not know who started this rumour but it is completely untrue. It is just damaging and hurtful gossip !!!!

26/10/09 11:27 pm
Anonymous said...

Re anonymous 11.27
Would it be a possible solution then, to establish a federation between St George's and St Mark's, so that both schools could stay as small primaries on their sites, one in Swanage and one in Langton? They could then share the financial costs of a Headteacher and other overheads. As both hold Church status, a connection already exists....

27/10/09 9:11 am
Anonymous said...

It's interesting to read the above comment. Federation does sound like a good idea but will the council go for maintaining 4 schools in Swanage I wonder (even if two schools share a headteacher and some of the financial burden). It does make sense with St Marks and St Georges both being Church of England schools. But I had heard that the chair of governors at St Georges has spoken out against the idea of federating with St Marks though. If true, it could be where the rumour started.
I agree that gossip can be very damaging and it is really not helpful when the public perception is that schools are less than supportive of each other. This did start to happen when the Purbeck Review first reared its ugly head and some of the schools were caught in the crossfire. It's horrid for anyone connected with our schools. Having spoken to several staff members at all of the schools there certainly does appear to be a good working relationship between them which has been established over many years.

27/10/09 1:53 pm
Anonymous said...

I'm sure that the chairman of St Georges governors has a very good reason for her views and it will have been discussed by the governors. This does not mean that in any way is there any bad feeling between these schools. We all wish the best for our children and community.
But the Purbeck School Review team need to open up their ears and listen to the people that live and work here. What has been achieved as a community so far, is amazing and it has been done by the community working together as a united voice. This will continue. Many children, parents, staff and governors have links and friends in all schools. If the Conservative government pull the plug on the funding we will all remain good friends. The Purbeck Review team from the outset tried to set each school against other by John Nash reading out a statement at every public meeting that every first school head agreed with the 2 tier. This was unacceptable,I wonder how the Middle School heads and others felt when they heard this statement read out in front of hundreds of people. Well good for Purbeck people, it has enabled our community to respond strongly. One school should not be pitched against another. Any initial bad feeling that was caused in the early stages has been because of the insensitive handling of this by the Dorset County Council review team.

Local people have responded to this by working together as a united voice.

27/10/09 5:49 pm
Anonymous said...

Is there a united opinion about what should happen to our first schools then? Please share it if you know of one. I have listened to a range of arguments from various different angles. Surely part of the problem is that it is nigh on impossible to achieve total agreement.

27/10/09 7:36 pm
Anonymous said...

Would it be a possible solution then, to establish a federation between St George's and St Mark's, so that both schools could stay as small primaries on their sites, one in Swanage and one in Langton? They could then share the financial costs of a Headteacher and other overheads. As both hold Church status, a connection already exists....

Not sure what is going on, but I heard that St Marks wanted to move to the SMS site. Is this wrong then? do they want to stay where they are. If so, it seems that no one is moving anywhere. They can't really force anyone to move can they? First it was Swanage First, then St Georges, what about St Marys, perhaps they would like to move?

27/10/09 11:31 pm
Anonymous said...

I think they can force schools to move. The options forum was set up by DCC to gather the opinions of each school and other interested members of the community. There were chairs of governors, headteachers,some town councillors and an Education Swanage representative on the forum I think. Not sure who else. I understand they were supposed to come up with a joint vision for the future of our schools but I've heard that there is still some disagreement over what should happen with the C of E schools. Apparently St Marks and DCC have said they don't have enough room to stay where they are, unfortunately. And why wouldn't they want more space for their kids? They may have changed their mind on this though.
I don't know what the options forum finally came up with but would be interested to know. Anyone? or is it top secret?

29/10/09 10:26 am
Anonymous said...

'Would it be a possible solution then, to establish a federation between St George's and St Mark's, so that both schools could stay as small primaries on their sites, one in Swanage and one in Langton? They could then share the financial costs of a Headteacher and other overheads. As both hold Church status, a connection already exists....'

Seems to be the present middle school site is situated between the two. Would it really be so bad to amalgamate both school into one CofE school on that site?

29/10/09 7:06 pm
Anonymous said...

Seems like the sensible solution and it's close to where the majority of children live so they can easily walk to school.

30/10/09 9:32 am
Anonymous said...

'Would it be a possible solution then, to establish a federation between St George's and St Mark's, so that both schools could stay as small primaries on their sites, one in Swanage and one in Langton? They could then share the financial costs of a Headteacher and other overheads. As both hold Church status, a connection already exists....'

Seems to be the present middle school site is situated between the two. Would it really be so bad to amalgamate both school into one CofE school on that site?

Depends who you are whether it would be bad or not. St George's is determined to remain in the heart of the village of Langton Matravers.
St Marks could join the new Secondary School proposed on the Middle School Site. Would that be so bad?

31/10/09 1:42 am
Anonymous said...

St Georges's don't have room to grow as a primary where they are sited though, anymore than St Mark's do. This is a huge fly in the ointment.

31/10/09 8:03 am
Anonymous said...

I'm afraid you are wrong. St George's has had plans drawn up to show that it can expand. Don't believe everything you hear.

Perhaps St Mark's would also have room to expand on its own site? Just because DCC says it cant and wanted in the first consultation to merge St Marks with Swanage First onto the Middle School site, perhaps some St Marks parent's would actually like for this school to remain on its own site. What is the view of the parent of St Mark's?

31/10/09 2:37 pm
Anonymous said...

Swanage First had massive support to remain on its own site, as a non denominational Swanage school

St George's First has has massive support to remain on its own site to remain as a CE Langton Matravers village school.

St Mary's seems to be out of the debate.

St Mark's has been told ? that it cannot expand on its own site, and that DCC needs to find another school for St Mark's to merge with onto another site.

Education Swanage propose a new secondary school for the Middle School Site.

Swanage Middle have been told they are to close.

DCC say that all children over the age of 11 should be educated at Purbeck School.

So does anyone know what will happen if the Conservative Party gets in ??

31/10/09 2:46 pm
Anonymous said...

A couple of thoughts. If St George's expand and become a primary where they are, how many children will they be able to accommodate? Will they be able to have one class per year group or will they need to have mixed age classes? The same goes for St Marks. Also if all of the first schools become primaries where they are situated will there be enough places for all of the children in Swanage and what will happen if there's a population growth?

31/10/09 2:55 pm
Anonymous said...

I wonder what St George's reasons are for opposing a federation?

31/10/09 10:49 pm
Anonymous said...

How do St Mark's feel? We know what the Council say, but what does the community of St Mark's think - the parent's, governors and staff. Do they want to remain on their site, if possible, or move to the Middle School site, join with another school, or remain seperate?
Has anyone heard the answers to these questions, or has St Marks' put out a statement? I don't think we have heard, but people keep assuming they know!

31/10/09 10:55 pm
Anonymous said...

I think that some of the assumptions come from inside information via the representatives at the options forums (i.e what has been said by various headteachers and governors)but I'm not sure that they are publicly allowed to divulge their knowledge.

1/11/09 10:10 am
Anonymous said...

I'm afraid you are wrong. St George's has had plans drawn up to show that it can expand. Don't believe everything you hear.

Please can you elaborate. Can St George's fit 210 pupils on their site with their plans? so that they can accommodate 7 classes from Reception to Year 6? Or perhaps 140 if they limit intake to 20 puipils per year group? If so, that's good news for Langton but how will it help St Marks?

1/11/09 12:07 pm
Anonymous said...

No answers to the questions above?

3/11/09 6:10 pm
Anonymous said...

When will the county council publish the results of the options forum? Or will we need to use the freedom of information act to find out what's being decided for us??

5/11/09 1:24 pm
Anonymous said...

Officers Recommendation report:
The result of the Swanage and Langton Options forum should be found on the Dorset For You website on 16th November.

7/11/09 11:11 am
Anonymous said...

Glad to see that the Cothill Trust has allowed St. George's use of some of the land of the Old Malthouse Prep School for play use. This is a fine neighbourly gesture from the independent sector and should encourage St. George to fight for its retention.

10/11/09 7:56 pm
Anonymous said...

Every reason to keep St George's in Langton open and no reasons to consider closure.

The school has made links with the Cothill Trust, and the future looks positive. It will offer opportunities for shared facilities and access to science expertise. Keep St George's Village School where it belongs, in the heart of the village of Langton Matravers.

13/11/09 2:11 pm
Anonymous said...

Good News for St George's. Could someone please elaborate? Is it just the playing field space that was an objection or do the council say that there isn't enough room in the buildings too? Would this offer from the Cothill Trust mean that the school could build over some of their existing land to make it bigger and then use the Old Malthouse land for playground space too?

13/11/09 8:09 pm
Anonymous said...

Insularity a positive trait???

13/11/09 8:12 pm
Anonymous said...

OOps wrong page.

13/11/09 8:13 pm
Anonymous said...

The council's report released today can be found at:
http://www1.dorsetforyou.com/council/commis2009.nsf/MIN/630DE82B70A4847480257672003104DF?OpenDocument

I see that there will be two options which will go forward to formal consultation if agreed by the councillors.

Option A. St Georges and St Marks move to a new school on middle school site with a PAN (pupil admission number) of 45. St Marys stay where it is with a PAN of 20. Swanage First stay as it is with PAN of 30.

Option B. All first schools become primary schools, some with reduced PANs. St Georges PAN of 15, St Marks (in a new building on middle school site) PAN 30, St Marys PAN 20 and Swanage First PAN 30.

Which option would you go for people?

18/11/09 6:45 pm
The Postman said...

re-posted here rather than start new topic Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "NEW TOPIC":

There we go then.

2-tier and Langton and Herston on the Middle School site.

The good thing is that at least we'll have a non-church Primary.

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/districts/purbeck/4747259.Several_Purbeck_schools_may_be_saved_after_public_feedback/

just in case

http://tinyurl.com/yjq866a



Posted by Anonymous to swanageview at 1:57 PM

19/11/09 3:20 pm
Anonymous said...

'The good thing is that at least we'll have a non-church Primary'. Beware! If people who want a secondary school in Swanage try to establish their own school in Swanage because DCC refuse them a twin campus Purbeck school, it could end up being a church school.

19/11/09 7:43 pm
Anonymous said...

I think anonymous at 7.43 may be a little confused.

If the Swanage Secondary is Church then we'd have choice at both Primary and Secondary levels.

Please bear in mind that a Swanage Secondary won't happen now for ..... who knows how many years?

21/11/09 6:04 pm
Anonymous said...

I can't comment on whether 7.43 is confused or not. However, 6.04 is correct in saying that parents would have more choice which is a positive thing and would certainly be welcomed by the Government under its diversity and community cohesion agenda. There are are a couple of issues that immediately come to mind though.

What about parents who do not want their children to attend a church school? They would still need to go to Wareham. This is on top of parents who may continue to opt for Grammar School and for Purbeck for a variety of other reasons (including social ones) plus any pupils studying diplomas that may only be offered at a Wareham site (or indeed at college further afield).

Another positive is that it may well serve to bring the communities of Swanage, Wareham and Corfe closer together (increase cohesion?) by attracting children to Swanage. Parents may prefer their children to attend a church school here. I think the nearest to Wareham is St Edwards Catholic School.

This throws up another issue for consideration. Transporting pupils in two directions, both to and from Wareham. This would not significantly reduce carbon emissions, bearing in mind too that more teachers and other staff will be driving (probably individually) to Swanage daily.

Lots to think about. But like you say, it's likely to be a long way of...if at all.

21/11/09 7:50 pm
Anonymous said...

A lot of speculation? The meeting of the Community and Overview Committee on Tuesday at DCC may just be the beginning.

21/11/09 10:47 pm
Anonymous said...

'The good thing is that at least we'll have a non-church Primary'. Beware! If people who want a secondary school in Swanage try to establish their own school in Swanage because DCC refuse them a twin campus Purbeck school, it could end up being a church school.

7:43 PM

Why would they wish to do that? Perhaps an all faith school or a community school would be a more rounded way forward.

21/11/09 11:01 pm
Anonymous said...

I think I can help out with this. Yes an all faith or church school probably would be more rounded but the DCSF rules mean that under section 7 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006 there must be a competition to open any new school and the LA must invite proposers to submit proposals. The legislation applies to secondary and primary schools. The sorts of proposers the Government wants to come forward and set up new schools include:
• parents and community groups
• universities and FE colleges
• education charities and business foundations
• voluntary and religious groups, including church and faith communities
• those offering distinctive educational philosophies
• trusts or trustees of existing schools or consortia of schools (but not the governing body).
http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/schoolorg/data/guidance_Documents/New-school-comps-guide-amended%202009-04-16%20links%20chgd.doc

In the initial proposals for Swanage way back, one of the reasons given by DCC for a Church of England primary school on the Middle School site was that if a new school is started, it has to go to a competition and that the Church 'would win'. They gave this as a reason for not putting forward a proposal to open a new Community School in Herston if Swanage First was closed. They said that in a competition, the Church would be the likely winners because of the government’s policies on diversity.

If this was the case, we can assume that it could also be the case with establishing a new secondary school in Swanage. The difference is that it was possible to argue that a Community School should be kept in Swanage at Primary level to maintain diversity (i.e. to keep faith and non-faith options). However, it might be harder to argue this at secondary level because to open a Church school in Swanage would actually be increasing diversity because there is no Church secondary school for miles, whereas there is a community school already exists in Wareham.

The process means that a decision should be made 'on the type of school that best meets the community’s needs'. One could argue that establishing a Church secondary school is filling a gap and thus meeting the needs of the wider Purbeck community. It is folly to think of Swanage in isolation. The town is part of the wider community of Purbeck and would likely be viewed as such by DCC and DCSF.

22/11/09 8:47 am
Anonymous said...

The process means that a decision should be made 'on the type of school that best meets the community’s needs'. One could argue that establishing a Church secondary school is filling a gap and thus meeting the needs of the wider Purbeck community. It is folly to think of Swanage in isolation. The town is part of the wider community of Purbeck and would likely be viewed as such by DCC and DCSF.

Now..the definition of Purbeck is always ambiguous. To us 'ere locals we like to think of the Isle of Purbeck. This I think I am right in saying does not really include Wareham, but everything this side of the river and down to West Lulworth. PDC define 'Purbeck' as being a much larger place, that includes Wareham, Upton, Lychett.
Swanage is a town in its own right, a secondary school is needed, otherwise it will become the largest town in Dorset without one. Even Lyme Regis has its own. If they can do it in West Dorset, why can't they do it here?

27/11/09 10:07 pm
Anonymous said...

I am local too but the need to keep Swanage as an isolated enclave by some bothers me. Do you want our children to grow up thinking their friends from Wareham are not part of Purbeck even though their school is named as such? Besides, it is a fact that DCC and PDC consider Wareham to be part of Purbeck and the effect of building a new school in Swanage on the pupils from Wareham and beyond should also be considered.

30/11/09 7:32 pm
Anonymous said...

Why do some people want Swanage to become an isolated enclave? Sorry kids but your pals in Wareham are not really residents of Purbeck and your school should be renamed too because it's not really in Purbeck at all!

30/11/09 7:35 pm

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