Biggers said...
If this forum is representative of the real local issues of Swanage (litter, ugly buildings, inactive town council) which I'm sure are all very valid then I think you should step back and say "my god how lucky we are".I'm a regular visitor to the town coming from the suburbs of London. I come here for the natural beauty and peace of the place - if you came to stay in my town (which is one of the nicer suburbs) you'd be racing back to Swanage in time for tea!So why not say what's the best building / thing in town. My top 3 have to be (1) Ballard Down - the climb up there and view back down (2) The new beach (3) The chips in the square (and I do use the litter bins)
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67 comments:
how dare you suggest those things surley you meant to say we need a really expensive resturant some new £30million buliding also a art gallery selling stuff at £300k and sir be warned if you use those fish n chip shops you will be cast aside like the devil incarnate you are. but really thank you this is what lots of people say sometimes natural beauty far outweighs what man can do..
P.S did you check in your bank/income staement before you crossed wareham bridge.
Why do you suggest a fish and chip shop cannot live in harmony with a high class restaurant? A modern church on the way into town does not detract from the mill pond does it? A few appartments in the place of a run down old house doesn't cover Ballard in a housing estate!
ummmmm it was meant as a dig tongue in cheek comment on those who think the chip shops in the square detreact from swanage as a tourist spot. sorry if you did not get the humour all be it barbed
soz, think you got caught in friendly fire.
Every day I look out of my window at my surroundings and think. "You mate" are a lucky fellow to have been born and brought up in this beautiful area.
Despite the calls for more of this, and more of that,
This place is Gods own country. Change it too much,and it will lose what folk come here for.
Whatever that is.
Dancing Ledge.
Well said, Dancing Ledge! Having spent 35 years travelling as a musician, I came to Swanage for a couple of days six years ago and was fortunate enough to be able to stay.
Wonderful, truly wonderful!
The amount spent on attracting tourists to Swanage is a matter of pence per tourist. It makes sense to aim that at the ones who can be persuaded to spend most here. I don't know why one anon. has such difficulty with this idea. Plenty of people with very little money to spend are going to come here anyway. Why does the idea of expensive art galleries catch in his throat? Whats wrong with having expensive restaurants if a clietele for them can be attracted? Why does he think everything has to be reduced to one level of greasy mediocrity?
What about market forces? If someone thought that an expensive art gallery would be viable, they'd open one.
I think you have to make Swanage a place where kids want to go: The rich kids parents will have to take them, then whilst the kids are surfing/sailing/mountain biking the parents will spend in the boutiques, and pay for good food and service. (See Cornwall).
The market gets a fair degree of help in other places. The market did not put a Tate in St Ives. Private investment has followed public investment.
We have no private developer seeking to establish a large commercial destination in Swanage nor are we likely to find one given the transport and environmental constraints. Similarly nobody is going to put a prestige company HQ office block here. We know the St Ives model works so it makes sense to follow it.
well said which is one of the busiest bussiness in town ummmmmmmmm let me think t K's amusements like you say if an up market gallery/resturant is need why not open one. I rest my case
Yes, leave it to the market so we can have bloody great amusement arcades full of happy idiots. Thats your vision for Swanage.
I have a friend who works 'in thr city' and she says, she knows Swanage, that what we need is a 'coherent and integrated business' plan that investors will find attractive.
Anyone would think we are talking about New York with their business plans... for crying out loud!
Swanage is a little Dorset seaside town, at the end of a single road in, and out, for all intents and purposes..A dead end.
The charm of the place is what it is now...Change it? its lost what folk come here for.
Talking about intergrated business plans for a smalll Dorset town is a bit "Off" it cannot expand outwards. The South side is a maze of old underground workings.
Who would invest in a town that we difficulty in leaving in the summer.
Swanages best hope is to stay as it is. One thing is obvious...that is the place is brimming with people now. So how do you crowd more in?
If its not bigger and worse amusement arcades what is your vision for Swanage? What would you like to see here in ten years time for example? Apart from more name callers that is.
NICE!
Why is it that when a discussion gets interesting, we always get one with a tirade of abuse? Idiot indeed....
What is it that makes folks write in such an abusive manner. Something wrong? Must be.
Thank you. One of the strange characteristics of Swanage view is that we have some posters who will make strong implications but then get very indignant when these implications are spelt out. Yet the implications are always the point they are making. In this case why remind us that Ks makes lots of money unless you are saying this is what the market dictates and the lesson we should learn from Ks is to have more of the same if we want prosperity? Perhaps they are genuinely unaware that this is the effect of what they are saying. Perhaps they think very literally and don't consider the implications of what they are saying. I could read the call to "put your money where your mouth is" as saying that only millionaires are entitled to an opinion but that will, no doubt, bring howls of righteous indignation.
Hey, calm down everyone. If you go back to my original post I was saying look at what you've got and how fantastic it is - celebrate the good things. With a couple of exceptions you're mainly still bleating about what's bad about Swanage. As a regular visitor to the town I have to agree with anonymous at 9:47pm - it's charms do not need massive change - just keep what you have got in good order (the benefits of the beach replenishment being an obvious example).
I'll ask again - what are the 3 best things about the town... answers on a postcard, written whilst enjoying a nice bag of chips please
what irks me and causes me to go off on one is exactly what was posted,one of the busiets bussiness in town is K's so explain to me WHY, then it was said (not only be me) if posters think that swanage needs posh galleries and loch fyne style resturants why dont they put up the money and see how it goes not rocket science is it, swanage as has been said is lovely, nature has given us the jurrasic coast NOT man, if you want all these high class places it will kill a lot of other smaller bussineses off, also go visit Bath and see how bloody expensive that is, we dont have the transport links (yet) to do this sort of thing. Take it from me lots of the people who come to swanage come for the beaches the walking the diving fishing and sailing, and usually only stay one or two nights (well thats what I think anyway) yes it does need some work but it needs to cover all the spectrum of people not just the few with high incomes or you make it elitist, mmmmm thinking about it some of you might want that tho! a couple spending £500 on a weekend in say a resturant/shop is no different that 10 people spending £50 each, in fact thats more for evry one.
Anyway chew the fat on that one.
Why would an art gallery or two selling work at the same price galleries in other places ask and a restaurant of a standard and price to compare with the best kill of small businesses? I don't understand. Is Swanage completely dependent on inverted snobs who will take fright at a few expensive places? Can mmmmmm please explain how this works. I'd go along with the opposite proposition, that the sight of cheap gift shops and chippies everywhere scares off a lot of potential high spenders to the towns detriment but the idea that anyone is going to say they are not coming here because theres a good restaurant is absurd.
Whats wrong with making Swanage elitist? The vast majority of Swanage people would be better off if we had fewer but better heeled tourists. A small number of businesses would need to adapt to changed conditions. They have gone down market in the past so there is no reason they should not go upmarket. More oyster bars, fewer mobile burger fryers on the seafront. Whats the problem with that. Ks would make a very good art gallery for example.
Its absolutely right to say Swanage should cater for the whole spectrum. Whats missing is upper middle and upmarket retail outlets. We have down market ones like New Look and a few mid market ones but where do you buy high quality goods? You can buy a cheap Italian washing machine here, you can buy a slightly dearer one but where can you buy a Miele? There is a total gap. So much so that I suspect some contributors to this threaddon't know what high quality goods there are that they are missing.
Agree! we would like to be able to buy up market goods here. But where is the money coming from?
Its ok if you have rich visiters for a few short months. But on local wages? Not a chance mate!
well said 9pm anon 6 to 8 weeks a yr is all they would get, just imagine a wet nov thrs evening would people pay lots to eat out no. it then just becomes a seasonal place, now if its a winner why does some one not do it, also there is a few galleries allready so why more, but again its back to swange offering more than just shops it offer total beauty thats why people come here, also whats washing machines got to do with it I just checked on the web and I can have one delivered in 5 days so why a shop? surely with the prices some places charge for food thats a bit up market, also is there not 3 up market hotels in town? I just give up lots of you seem to want endless book shops galleries and posh loch fynes but swanage is not that its for christ sake a world heritage site, can you imagine it well old bean im off to swanage just going to buy a couple of pics then come home dont want to get all wet and muddy looking at al that bally coast line.again if you think the up market approach will work form a group market it fund it do it best of luck.... but in the mean time dont put down those that at least are running bussineses.
I would still like the cross poster to tell us their vision for Swanage in 10 years time instead of rubbishing anyone who tries to discuss change.
They deny their vision is bigger and better amusement arcades but they have not said how they would like things to develop. Can we have the benefit of their views please.
Why is it putting down people running businesses to make the factual observation that in many cases they are selling cheap down market goods. Burts Bits is not exactly Gucci. Are we supposed to enter a collective delusion that it is?
The Swanage businesses I am not supposed to be critical about are not exactly noted for paying high wages which goes some way to account for the remark about Swanage wages not giving you much to spend.
First let us be honest about our town. The one thing that folk come here for is because of what it is NOW......Evey time I go down to town the place is buzzing with people. So whats the gripe?
By the way this World Heritage site seems to me to be a bit of a con.
"Can you tell me where the Heritage site is please?" "You are standing on it" "Oh! I thought there would something to see"
"NOPE... its just the way its always been, a bit of cliff, thats it!"
Dancing Ledge
To whoever wrote "Ks would make a very good art gallery for example", thank you so much for making my day!
Now count how many people are in Ks throughout the day, then stand outside one of the art galleries and count how many people go in and out there in a day! Deduct the latter from the former and this is your insanity quotient.
Also, where's the benefit of proposing that somebody else's business should be run the way you'd do it? They are certainly not going to listen to you! Why not start one and do it yourself? If you can't, at least take your fantasising upmarket and write about what you would do with Swanage if you won millions on the lottery! That at least doesn't masquerade under cover of being helpful.
the swanage bussiness you are on about pay the average what they lack is enough (by enough I mean to fill the quota needed the employees employed are very good) honest trustworthy reliable hardworking non smoking employees!p.s also who can read and not use the F word in every sentence
Looking back through this thread I noticed that the sugestion of a Swanage business plan was sneered at. I dont know why. If Swanage was a single business it would undoubtedly have one. Think of it as a business turning over millions of pounds a year rather than a number of micro-empires.
I wish the friend of amusement arcades would hurry up and give us their vision for the future of Swanage. They seem to have decided that a long period of silence on this matter is the best way of expressing their views.
I've given up trying to get you locals to tell me what you think are the best bits about your town. Remember my comment "how lucky you are" - it's so true and many of you just fail to see it.
Can anyone name a town in the UK (of a comparable size to Swanage) that doesn't have problems with litter, amusement arcades and other tacky businesses, youths in hoodies with attitude and the odd crappy building like the Mowlem.
What you have got in beautiful natural environment a clean town (you may argue, but you need to compare to your peers) and from what I can see very little in the way of threats to a pretty nice way and pace of life.
Tell me to the contrary but from these message boards I see little evidence of violent crime, vandalism and grafitti, prostitution, no-go drug zones etc etc A great percentage of towns in this country have these threats as a way of life.
Can someone tell me I'm wrong. I think not.
Did you see the BBC programme about the National Trust and Studland?
In it, people who love Studland the way it is (which has been created over the years by natural forces) want to keep it the way it is, without allowing natural forces to carry on changing it.
A lot of opinions on this blog remind me of that programme.
Well said Biggers!
Anybody who lives in Swanage and moans about it should try spending a week or so somewhere else.
They would benefit from it... and so would we!
gucci does he play for chelsea now? also no one is suggesting bigger arcades thers not a lot wrong with swanage if you dont like it hear or think other places are better b**ger of there.
Thank you for sharing your profound vision for the future of Swanage with us. Your not descended from Dr Pangloss by any chance are you?
it appears we have 2 camps those who like swanage as it is mid range lovely coast line all that goes with it, and those who want it to become a haven for those with money ie the art galleries and posh nosh places I suspect those who want the former are real locals or those who have genuienly fallen for swanage as it was and is those who want the later treat all as ignorant, are newbies used to have good jobs in the city and think we all need educating, as has been said get your galleries your up market hotels and resturants when you have done that come back and rattle the tree there is things wrong with swanage but theres also a lot right with it and im affraid you are the ignorant ones because you cant see beyond its natural beauty.
Just because Swanage is surrounded by pretty scenery does not mean every aspect of the town is wonderful. For example large parts of the economy are reliant on visitors who sleep in fields and eat in the streets. Oddly enough this is not a divinely ordained arrangement and can be improved on. Its only those determined to live in a fool's paradise who claim otherwise.
There is so much that I would like to say in this forum, I will though bite my tongue and address the issues rather than the style of there presentation. I have lived in Swanage since 1990, I moved down here with my family when I was four, it is therefore not possible for me to have ever had a ‘good job in the city’ and I would suggest that this also means that I am not a ‘newbie’.
I would like to offer my full support to the argument in favour of bringing more prosperous tourists into Swanage, the potential benefits for the local economy are huge. To illustrate this, take a hypothetical family of four who come to Swanage for a week (or indeed a weekend), if they camp then they are paying a few pounds a night and it’s all going to the owner of the campsite, whereas if they stay in a hotel then not only do they pay more but what they pay goes to the hotel owner, the chambermaid, the cook and the receptionist. Simply they provided more jobs for local people.
Suppose that our hypothetical family goes out for a meal, if they go to one of the delightful fish and chip shops that cover our town centre then they will perhaps pay £15 between them and most of this will go to the owner of the shop, with some going to the underpaid teenagers serving them. If a family of the same size goes for a meal in a restaurant they will more likely be spending £15 a head and this will go to the waiter/waitress, the chef, the owner and the kid doing the washing up in the kitchen, again more money and more jobs for local people.
Put simply bringing people with more money into town means that everybody wins, they spend more so the owners of local businesses could afford to pay their staff more meaning that more young people are likely to stay in Swanage rather than doing what I’m going to do as soon as I finish my degree and leave to get a good job in London.
As the main advocate in this thread of trying to attract people with a bit more money to spend into Swanage I think is worth pointing out that I have lived here since arriving as an infant in 1948, have never worked in the city, or alas, enjoyed a high salary. In my lifetime Swanage has gone down and down. I hope it is not wishful thinking when I say there are now a few signs of this being reversed and these need to be encouraged.
I have to say I detect a note of inferiority complex in the remark about me thinking the locals are ignorant. I don't think I will comment on whether they need educating. I also went to our local schools, when I turned up, which was not very often, and I know how good the education on offer was.
nice senario about the £15 per head bit,so let me get this right no campers because that only goes to the owner of the field? chip shop food only goes to the owner, not that he emlpoys cooks washer ups waitreses (some cases) cleaners servers etc etc,so let me get this right more people emlpoyed in a small resturant than in a chip shop?. ok next thing teenagers are paid what the govt states my grandson does and so does his mates (please argue that with TB) and by saying that you imply that these teens have this job for life and not just as many do the summer or just to earn cash.let me tell you something lots of people with more money dont allways part with it, some are so bloody tight. also swanage is not about getting more people in here it about what attracts them and I still advocate its it natural beauty, and when you have finnished your degree and been to london (paved with gold) I suppose you will come back and buy a house at a hugely inflated price and sneer at those not so lucky, it may suit you to do that, that leaves one more space for a retirement flat..... and let me tell you good people swanage will not prosper watch this space to see how its vibrant centre in the summer is about to be choked to death................P.S blame to old S***
First things first, as I'm sure readers of this post are aware, there is NO minimum wage set by the government for those under the age of 16. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nmw/nmw_abou.htm
and the wage of £3 an hour for 16-18 is, let us be frank about this, tantamount to exploitation and a £5.05 minimum wage for the adult population is still well below and acceptable standard for a living wage, particularly in Dorset.
I would like to challenge your tenuous inference drawn from my statements about camping, I see no way in which my post can be construed to say that I think there should be no campsites. That is an entirely unreasonable suggestion and would detract from the attraction of the area to a lot of potential visitors.
The point still stands though that other forms of accommodation i.e. hotels/hostels/B&Bs provide more employment. The two though are not mutually exclusive, it is possible to have campsites and hotels in the same town. It is also a matter of simple fact that restaurants provide better jobs and more pleasant working conditions for the staff than fish and chips takeaways.
Yes it is true that the beauty of the countryside around Swanage attracts visitors to the area, this does not mean though that it would not be desirable and responsible to do more to attract visitors to the area.
I agree with you that there is a risk that Swanage will slowly die in the coming years. Responsibility for this will though lie at the feet of those who pleaded for inaction in the face of calls for development.
The solution may be to attract more visitors over a longer season spending more money, and also to encourage other industries. There are examples of small, successful local creative companies such as web design consultancies which provide very good jobs all year round. The solution to the problems facing Swanage is not more of the same, simple inactivity will mean that the town will choke to death on fish and chip wrappers.
Some parting thoughts; at first glance the posts in this forum give the impression that this debate is about the future of Swanage but on closer inspection it appears really to be about the fear of outsiders present in the minds of some ‘locals’. There seems to be a good deal of unfounded resentment towards those who wish to frequent restaurants more up market than the local chippy or who wish to spend an afternoon wandering through art galleries rather than tipping a bucket of two pence pieces down the throat of a machine in the arcade. All of this leads me to the conclusion that this is perhaps not a two-way debate as you make it out to be between ‘locals’ and the rest of the world. It appears to be a debate between locals, yokels and other interested parties.
Please provide an answer to the following questions; (1) what is wrong with wanting to create better paid jobs by encouraging people into the town with more money? (2) what have you got against people who like to buy paintings? (3) what would you like to see done to stop Swanage becoming a dead end retirement town?
those who sleep in fields and eat on the streets ohhhh we have tramps now do we? Im sure those comments will go a long way with the camping community. just a point about 2 weeks ago i was having a beer in the lower high st and was chatting to a guy who was suprise suprise camping yes under canvas he worked in a city within the law comunity so did his wife (high earners) they loved that life and they came to dive, so we have high earners, living in a field and guess what they had a kebab at the end of the night so its not all posh resturants and gucci shoes is it?
I don't care how campers earn their living. Its a classless activity. My point is simply that Swanage needs to have whatever is needed to attract visitors who will spend more money here. Its so obvious that I don't know why anybody has problems with it.
It would be a good thing if they had the choice of eating in top quality restaurants and buying high quality goods here. Whats wrong with that?
Looking back over earier postings there seems to be someone who thinks that people have moved here not because of the scenery but because of the downmarket nature of the economy. These people, it seems, are very nervous that the rest of us will think they are stupid for coming here for that reason and they think their lives will be diminished if there is a wider choice of restaurants and shops and more better off visitors are attracted. All very strange.
Right, lets make this simple. We need to know who says what. I'm responsible for 'First things first' and 'There is so much that I would like to say' and there is one other person arguing from the same sort of position as me.
Judging by the styles there would appear to be one person arguing against us who posted 'those who sleep in fields and eat on the streets ohhhh we have tramps now do we?'and 'nice senario about the £15'.
At the risk of sounding like a certain well known news presenter, please respond to the question posed to you. You seem to have dodged the issue by jumping back to making some pointless references to an earlier post. Get to the point and tell us (1) what is wrong with wanting to create better paid jobs by encouraging people into the town with more money? (2) what have you got against people who like to buy paintings? (3) what would you like to see done to stop Swanage becoming a dead end retirement town?
1) nothing wrong with better paid jobs,so you are suggesting that a resturant like loch fyne will pay it workers far better than say the trat? if you think that im affraid your wrong. a poster said we need more jobs like web design granted but jobs like that dont revolve around torism and people tend to do that sort of thing from home now, but the transport links must improve to allow more investment, ok a scenario as the £15 man likes em, a admin job in poole paying £8.50 an hour not bad money, so an office opens in swange pays £6.50 an hour why? because it can, thats because as above poor public transport links, the swanage employer knows that it cost about 44p per mile to run a car so poole is 23 miles away 23x44 =£10.12 each way do the maths... the swanage employer knows the worker will take the swanage job. and while the min wage not set by me is at £5.05 thats all people are going to get, let me ask you mr poster if you ran a business employing 4 people and could save £16000 a yr buy just paying the min wage would you do it or would you take the moral high ground and pay your employees tha extra straight yes or no? especially when margins are tight gas/elec going up 20% recently.
2) nothing in fact i bought some recently paid about £100 for em, my point and others is that theres what 4 or 5 galleries in town now new one just opened so we need more do we?
3) ok NO MORE 300k flats built, new blood on the council ie younger people, make the elderly by what means i do not know yet realsie that swange needs life and vibrance, not 9 pm watershed. some of the brown field sites make into housing for locals (sorry i mean people with local connections not from slough just because they like it here) make holiday home pay full council tax extend the season. cut down on parking charges, encourage small hotels and B&B's help the music festivals, encourage street cleaning like they do abroad, make the caravan park worthwhile do something with the gramar school site perhaps a wet weather facility.
ok have i given answers over to you and just a thought if you think by making the pay higher it will keep the locals here, do they speak polish?
Thankyou, some straight talking at last!
Firstly, as regards the minimum wage I think that it should be quite a bit higher. When I ran a small IT consultancy even when I was only employing somebody to do a leaflet drop or a bit of typing I always made sure that they were paid well, so I feel confident to say that if I was running a small business I would be happy to pay that few pounds an hour extra to ensure that staff are paid a living wage (as an illustration at a time when the Advertiser were paying distributors about £2.50 an hour I was paying about £5 for similar work).
I am note sure I agree with your suggestion that £8.50 is a good wage, it's not bad, but it's not inline with the cost of living in this county, it equates to an anual income of about £16k before tax which is definately not enough to buy a house. It is also well below the national average wage of £28,740.00 (http://www.gmb.org.uk/Templates/PressItems.asp?NodeID=93016)
I completely agree with you about Dorset public transport the £7 cost of a return to Poole is frankly outrageous and the only solution is to nationalise public transport and massively, massively subsidize the ticket price so that it is considerably cheaper for a family of four to travel by bus or train than by car and to make it more attractive for an employee to take the bus than drive. Some years ago I did a few weeks work in Bournemouth starting at 09:00 every morning and there were not a very large number of other people joining me on the first bus.
As regards the increasing cost of doing businesses, there is but one solution, put your prices up.
Art galleries; I would prefer to see more galleries and fewer arcades and gift shops, this is though just a matter of personal preference.
Turning now to property prices, £300k flats, unfortunately that is what a free market has done for us. It is rather unfortunate that we live in the town of the £200,000 council house http://www.milesandson.co.uk/property/index.shtml
It is possible that putting a tax on second homes would help Swanage’s housing market return to more sensible levels but this is something that can only be dealt with my central government. All that can be done locally is try and get more money in the pockets of the locals who want to buy houses. I’m going to leave Swanage next summer when I finish university, I actually want to though, I’ve been wanting to move to London for years and I’ve finally got the chance. There are however a good number of people who don’t want to leave but will not be able to find houses locally and I would therefore agree with your call for the construction of more affordable housing. Unfortunately though this is rather difficult without some government intervention as what was affordable housing when it was built is now almost £100k more expensive than a five bed detached house in Swanage was 10 years ago.
If people want to move to Swanage I don’t see why anybody should want to try and stop them though, if somebody is actually moving here with their family then good luck to them. I would be more hesitant though to welcome somebody who will buy a house here to turn into a holiday let.
As has been discussed at length on this website the problem of the untidiness of Swanage’s town centre can be dealt with in two ways, more cleaning to tackle the mess or going straight to the cause and providing financial disincentives against the businesses that generate the mess. I would certainly support that latter sort of action in the hope that businesses would change their practices which would have environmental benefits and possibly provide some better jobs. The problem with seaside towns is that takeaways are forced to have a short season of high profitability because lets face it, who wants to eat fish and chips outside on Swanage seafront at 6pm on a wet December evening?
A few final points; the ‘new blood’ that is so sorely needed on the council could come from anywhere, somebody with a bit of management experience for a city firm for example might make a good councillor. It doesn’t have to be those whose parents live in the town.
Finally, no I don’t speak Polish, but this isn’t too much of a problem because most Polish immigrants speak English and if needs be I learn quickly. You’re clearly taking a shot at the immigrant community and I can’t help but leap to their defence. As fellow Europeans the Poles have as much of a right to be in this country as the rest of us. You may see them as outsiders but I would encourage you to move the boundaries back in your mind. Whilst it is a trite comment; ‘there is more that unities us than divides us’.
I have good friends from across the world and frankly I don’t care what it says on their passports. I don’t think to myself there ‘X’ she’s from Singapore, or there’s ‘Y’ he’s Irish, he’s different to me and I really can’t understand why people choose to think in these terms.
Would more galleries be a good idea? Yes. Heres why. Cultural retailing, unlike selling fruit and veg, does not just have a local market. Towns which have established a niche marketing of this kind are able to support large numbers of outlets. For example, St Ives has twelve art galleries. Carmel, Californa, population 4081, has over thirty galleries. Turning to books, Hay on Wye, population less than 1500, has over thirty bookshops and has been copied in many countries for example Wigtown in Scotland. If we had a dozen or two galleries they would attract thousands of people here. The more we had the more trade they would generate for other businesses.
The low pay question might resolve itself before too long as house prices get ever more ridiculous and fewer and fewer working people can afford to live here. How long will it be before more people commute into Swanage from Poole/Bournemouth than go the other way? There is a steady outflow of people of working age and sooner or later this will be reflected in pay rates.
firstly if you think £8.50 an hour a poor wage in dorset let alone swange im affraid you are in for a shock bar staff £5.50 ish manual workers in small business in town £6.00 per hr somerfield not much more than a fiver an hour (national firm) put your prices up pleaseeeeeeeeeee wake up its a competetive market, if i produce a product at say 55p per unit and people could buy it for 50 p per unit from china where are they going to go? and again I knew the answer to would you pay more it was obvious you were going to say yes. so you are telling me that you say put in 100k to a bussiness and are working to a tight budget, you would pay your workers more than either the min wage or market value, so interest rates go up gas/elec prices business rates insurance mmmmm hang on im not making a profit lets put the product up, ohhh good buy sales we can get it from china/india/brazil, if you worked a bussines plan like that im sure 1) you would not succeed and 2) the banks would be jittery about your bussines plan, and as for people moving here and taking up social housing I think thats moral corrupt no names but one of the most infamous asbo fammilies did just that, so you agree with that they have more right to a home than say a well established family who jhave been here for yrs, see local estate agents on sale of ex council house local purchasers only hurray. as for forgeign workers they tend to work for less money and therefore bussines will employ them, I went to KFC in poole not one english speaker there and no my wife and I could not understand them or them us.
I wish you luck in london I dont know your age but I do think rose tinted glasses come to mind, when you start your own bussines and start paying £2 per hr more than the market rate please put an ad on here im sure you would get lots of takers.
Companies follow a variety of remuneration policies. Marks and Spencer for example consciously aim to pay a good bit above the average in retail. Many succesful firms realise that minimising wages is not an approach which produces the best results for the shareholders. Its an old adage in recruitment that employers who pay peanuts hire monkeys.
That said catering is poorly paid everywhere and I aree that its a bit optimistic to expect Swanage employers to pay more.
Reversing your point over housing, are you saying that you think a criminal family born and bred in Swanage should have more right to social housing than an honest hard working family who happen to have been born somewhere else? Personally I'd rather the courts dealing with criminality than the housing department.
As a simple Home Counties lad I've become a bit confused by how many anonymouses (or anonymousi?) are at the core of the exchanges here - obviously at least 2, possibly 3/4.
You're both/all clearly passionate about your town and it's current and future environment. Why not do do something about it - it sounds like your Town Council members are a bit stale - why not stand at the next local elections and try to make a difference. Get some of the more healthy debate from this string taking place somewhere that could actually have an effect.
Or, if any coucil members might be reading this, why not invite some of these anons along to tell them what you're up to and invite ideas / debate.
A final note re "anons" - if you don't want to leave your name, just use a nickname so we can differentiate between you using the "Other" option. I could suggest a few names for you - depending on which "camp" you're from:- "Billy the Cod"; "Picasso"; "Prawn Sandwich"; "Candy Floss"; "Beach Hut Bob"....
what i meant about the "criminal family was that over a few yrs it was practice to house fammilies who had no loacal ties ie if a wife appeared in town and said she wanted housing due to this or that they would - and I have had experience and proof- be housed before say a well know local family that had perhaps been waiting a long time, I'm affraid swanage was ahaven for people who worked like this, i never said about the local criminal families all I said was some non locals jumped the queue, because of various reasons. And if you think you get elected on the local council around here without beiong under the tory mandate my god sir your mad, I have allways stated local politics should be local not national I would love to run under an independant but stand more cahance of eating cream cheese on the moon.
I agree about the impossibility of getting anywhere in local politics here unless you are willing to fly the tory banner and thats a complete no-no for me as well. I don't have the patience to sit through all those meeting either.
Its unfortunate that social housing is handled by local authorities. Health and social security are not. We dont have "sorry Mrs Jones you haven't lived here long enough to qualify for a cancer operation. How about having an ingrowing toenail done instead." Similarly crimes are not investigated only if the victim happens to be born here.
Do you think length of residence should be the only factor in allocating social housing? The example you gave was of a family moving here and being able to show greater housing need than another hypothetical family who had been here longer. As you do not allege the officers who made the decision acted improperly other factors must have been taken into account. Tell us how you think it should be done. Does the reference to ASBOs mean you think families should loose points because of minor involvement with the law? If ASBOs are relevant then clearly you don't think length or residence should be the only factor. This is rather confusing.
I don't know who this family are for certain, however, there were lots of tales a few years ago about a particular councillor, now retired, giving supplicants a helping hand. As nobody was scandalised and one of the recipients of their "help" talked openly about it it seems this type of intervention was an accepted practice and little old ladies who know councillors are allowed to jump the queue in Swanage. I very much hope this old spanish practice is a thing of the past.
to put it bluntly YEs i do think its important to alloacte loacl housing on a local xonnection basis, lots of posters go on about youngsters moving away the local community dying etc this is a good way to overcome this, why should my daughter move away because there is no social housing and she see's someone with NO local ties take a property? is that justice? I expect the do gooders will say ohhh yes but its not. as i said the fammily we are on about is a valid point!
Dear oh dear, you can't resist a gratuitous dig can you. If local connection is what matters the fact that some of the family you mentioned have had minor trouble with the law is completely irrelevant, a total red herring. If they were all absolute angels it would make no difference so far as you are concerned. You think that their application for housing should have been turned down if they had no local connection.
Now its a little rant about "do gooders", whatever that means. Can't we discuss this without all this sniffing and sneering?
I trust anon's daughter won't be asking for social housing in a distant parish. They might practice what he preaches.
no itsme daughter wont be because anon would like her to be close, also thers a difference between going somewhere to work or make provisions than just turning up. I moved somewhere else put my name down understood that there was a queue took a job and waited...
minor trouble dear god man if thats minor trouble i would hate to see major trouble and its about taking your turn waiting not queue jumping because you rant and rave at the council offices all tho it is better now the local housing trust has tightened up. you know nothing of what my daughter has gone through about housing all i have done is comment on the facts as has happened to my familly ok, its been long and stressfull, so please dont insult my daughters right to a home me you can but leave her alone ok. all she wants is a fair chance at a home in the area where at least 10 generations have grown up not a lot to ask, when she sees some of the people get homes before its upsetting, then again if thats how you view the future of swange so be it
P.S i put my post in as itsme as requeted by the webmaster who was anon on this post then?
I'm not insulting your daughter, just pointing out what looks like a contradiction in your position. Its you who brought her into this discussion. I have a great deal of sympathy for her situation. In no way am I saying "thats tough". I know how stressful this is.
The housing situation is a complete mess but I don't think being parochial is the answer. Twenty odd years ago the politicians thought it should all be left to the market and sold off council houses. We are living with the consequences of this folly and years of lack of investment. I fell as gloomy as you about this. I saw a report last week predicting that house prices will go on rising faster than earnings for years to come. The only answer is a huge amount of resources put into social housing and I don't imagine that is going to happen.
Re "Or, if any coucil members might be reading this, why not invite some of these anons along to tell them what you're up to and invite ideas / debate." There's a council meeting today, with publci participation time at 7pm-- so if anyone wants to say anything to the council, there's an opportunity.
you actually think the local coucillors take note of the ordinary person cloud cuckoo land or what, they only take note of the moaning elderly ones not the ones who count ie the young vibrant forward thinkers... lots of people in town have lost faith with the way this council works.
So how cum if all the locals can't afford to live or work here the Poles show up, find work and accommodation, without resort to any subsidy or social engineering?
sleep 4 to a room mate and live in alot people tend to do that if they live 100's miles from home ( brits included) not as if they nip home to lunch is it.
Re "you actually think the local coucillors take note of the ordinary person cloud cuckoo land or what"
Just plain untrue. Come along to the next council meeting if you have something to say (or bring "an ordinary person" along) and you will see the councillors take notice of anything that's said.
Or of course "the ordinary person" and "young vibrant forward thinkers" can just get in touch with me and I promise I shall do whatever I can to help. Mike Hadley (Swanage Town Councillor)mail@mikehadley.net
to cross post, sorry, the point is adequaltely made when the lady councillor stands up and blames motor bikes out of touch or what?
Wow, having nothing better to do this evening I've just re-read this thread – it's rather amusing.
There seem to be people who are setting up an us and them scenario.
OK, my family go back, father to son, to the 1500's – I think that makes me local. We've also found ourselves in Arne circa 13th Century – but no link as yet.
I'm a Grammar school boy, as an estimate 95% of my schoolmates went to university, no longer live around here, and earn a f@4k site more than I do.
Mind you, I earn a f@$k site more than most employees in Swanage, cuz I work 'over there'.
My local friends tend to work very hard. Save their money and then spend it abroad.
My non-local friends tend to work very hard and spend their money abroad or in B'mouth etc – all right I know.
Swanage is a gorgeous place to live if you have spare cash and transport – I did have a laugh when one of the 'locals' said that theirs only one way into Swanage!
Now I've set up my position I'm now open for flak when I say, surely if we're so obsessed with 'market forces' then we need to drive the market. We need to 'upskill' Swanage, we need to make Swanage attractive to those with spare cash.
THAT will drive the market.
And before you tell me to put my cash where my money is, I don't have anywhere near that sort of money, I do help out with a voluntary organisation in Swanage and time I have, the cash to buy and set up an upmarket business I don't. To leave myself even more exposed, I don't think I have the drive to either.
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