Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Local?

Many discussions on this Weblog end up discussing the rights of LOCALS.
As someone who can trace and document his familiy back through 500 years, locally, why don't I start a thread on what is a local?
I'm enough of a reactionary to stick to The Isle of Purbeck. Wareham is not in Purbeck.
DEFINITION.
A local is someone who has lived for some time in or around Swanage.
Any comments?

Posted by Anonymous to swanage view at 8:34 PM
Posted by at

30 comments:

The Postman said...

Let's have done with this xenophobia and call anyone who lives here a local(whether they have been here one year or 500 years). We should be grateful that the place is attractive to people to visit for a day or a week, and be glad that we are the ones who actually live here. We all support each other and should be glad of it.

28/3/07 9:05 pm
Anonymous said...

There is more to it than that. What we have here is something like a colonial situation. Until the 1880s Swanage was a tiny village then people started moving here from all over and soon outnumbered the indigenous population. The latter became a bit like a tribe of red Indians developing a reputation for indolence and boozing. Those who could not compete in the housing market were pushed into a reservation on the edge of the town.

After a century and a quarter there is still a feeling of resentment against "incomers" and an ideology with a number of counter factual positions. Chiefly there is the idea that they are in some way the custodians of a "Swanageness" which incomers want to destroy. Secondly there is a folk legend that social housing was provided under some sort of covenant for them and their children and children's children as some sort of perk for being locals. Naturally they are upset that this covenant has not, so far as they are concerned been honoured.

28/3/07 9:57 pm
Anonymous said...

I'm wondering where the zenophobia fits in?

I've admitted that I'm local, all I'm asking for is other peoples opinions on what is local.

I said; "has lived here for some time".

Maybe I'm trying to bait some people, but I didn't define "some time".

Hook, line and sinker?

Just in case, I've put myself up as a local - doesn't mean I agree with other locals, does it?

28/3/07 9:58 pm
Anonymous said...

There is more to it than that. What we have here is something like a colonial situation. Until the 1880s Swanage was a tiny village then people started moving here from all over and soon outnumbered the indigenous population. The latter became a bit like a tribe of red Indians developing a reputation for indolence and boozing. Those who could not compete in the housing market were pushed into a reservation on the edge of the town.

After a century and a quarter there is still a feeling of resentment against "incomers" and an ideology with a number of counter factual positions. Chiefly there is the idea that they are in some way the custodians of a "Swanageness" which incomers want to destroy. Secondly there is a folk legend that social housing was provided under some sort of covenant for them and their children and children's children as some sort of perk for being locals. Naturally they are upset that this covenant has not, so far as they are concerned been honoured.

28/3/07 10:02 pm
Anonymous said...

Sorry didn't mean to repeat myself.

28/3/07 10:04 pm
Anonymous said...

Just in case - ITOP - I'm the Original Poster.

I find this fascinating.

I'm awfully Local - I grew up up on our reservation.

My Mum is such a snob that we ended up living in poverty, BUT in our own - ha ha - house.

Did this do me and my brothers any good?

No.

28/3/07 10:08 pm
Anonymous said...

The "locals" think of themselves as laid back. Others think they are idle. Its a very mixed thing. The continuity is amazing. You find the same families back to the beginning of written records in Purbeck, for instance the family that had the firewood contract to keep the Normans warm in Corfe Castle are still on the scene. There are some interesting possibilities with a closed community over centuries and closed it certainly was. Only the son of quarryman would be accepted as an apprentice so if you were onn and wanted your daughter's sons to find work you had better marry her off to a cousin and keep it all in the family. It would be interesting to find out whether there are any inherited characteristics. I suspect a high level of ability to think in three dimensional terms might be a common one. It was a survival skill and one that let you do your job well so you were likely to have more surviving offspring. Its not something anyone has ever bothered to test for. There is evidence of self contained groups developing high levels of specialist ability where it is something that can result in having more kids who survive.

The idea of a lost tribe goes some way towards understanding the local's attitude to everyone else that looks like racism. They think of themselves as the only "real" people. Everyone else is in some way inferior. We have often seen this in these blogs where there has been mutual incomprehension and cries of dismay at accusations of racism. Its very much Greeks and barbarians.

28/3/07 11:31 pm
Anonymous said...

I would some it up as you live locally but are not a local. resentment is born out of some and I use the word some outsiders do cause this resentment by their attitude to locals.
PS I can trace my family back over 500 yrs on mothers side and well over 200 on dadies side.
If we were such bad people why do so many want to come and live here?

29/3/07 9:21 am
Anonymous said...

For the same reasons that every coastal and rural community in the south has a growing population and the industrial cities of the north have declined. It also has a lot to do with people living longer and being wealthier and so being able to afford to retire to the seaside in the expectation of living for many years. Nothing to do with what prospective incomers think of the mentality of the "locals". If you want to go down that road consider that Bournemouth started off a lot smaller than Swanage, virtually without locals, and grew enormously.

I think most incomers are pretty indifferent to the locals. It was different half a century ago when we had what might be called the servant employing ex-colonials retiring here and treating people the way they treated Africans. That really caused resentment.

John Mowlem thought that most of his relatives were unenterprising and idle and not deserving of help so it was not an attitude restricted to incomers. Perhaps everyone with get up and go did just that and the locals are the descendants of those left behind. Not very complimentary I am afraid.

I have the impression being a local is more to do with being part of an oral tradition than place of birth. Its what you learn at your mother's knee that matters in this respect.

29/3/07 10:37 am
Anonymous said...

Another side of this is loss of status. When stone was the major industry here masons were the elite. This goes back to the construction of the Norman castles and possibly further. By 1650 the marblers were already describing their company as "ancient". They seriously thought their "parliament" was a law making body, not just for their trade, but for the area in general. Then Victorian England moved here. The elite skills recognised by the incomers were rather different. Manual skills were no longer important. From being top of the pile a lot of "locals" went to being regarded as grubby workmen, their organisations at best amusing anachronisms.The resentment this caused is still there well over a century after the process started. It has become a ritual chant "incomers want to change everything", or "we've never done that before in Swanage"

29/3/07 12:43 pm
Anonymous said...

but why do people who move to an area to retire or even for work think they can change things, theres a difference to trying to help than forcing change on people, lots of locals dont bother with committee's etc because "outsiders" seem to wnat to run every thing I will add not ALL incomers. and not every coastal town ends up with retired people.

29/3/07 4:42 pm
Anonymous said...

I don't know of a coastal town in the south of England without a substantial retired population. Where did you have in mind?

I am still puzzled about what is it that incomers want to change. I think this is more folklore than an observation based on experience. What changes are we talking about. Incomers and first generation inhabitants are the overwhelming majority in any case. If the locals won't participate in "committees etc" they only have themselves to blame if they are not involved in the decision making. Thats so obvious I am amazed it needs to be pointed out.

29/3/07 5:27 pm
Anonymous said...

I used to know a Psychiatric nurse who worked in Purbeck, she said that the locals she saw were some of the most intransigent people she had ever met.

She was from small town Cornwall.

ITOP

29/3/07 5:37 pm
Anonymous said...

No of course not; and not all comersin have 60K pensions, read the guardian, live in either rose covered cottages or ivory towers.

Many of the the things said on this forum would get us sued if aired in public and signed - maybe, just maybe, these Blog things are free speech.

Cuz we don't have that right in this septic isle - sorry, I'm occasionally dis, dysleck, dyslexic.

29/3/07 8:07 pm
Anonymous said...

and forgetful, 8:07 ITOP

29/3/07 8:53 pm
Anonymous said...

It beats me why "locals" find it comment worthy that the rest of us want to change some things here sometimes. Incomers don't come here because they think Swanage is perfect in every possible respect. They decide to move to the seaside and happen to like this place. If you are the sort of person who moves from place to place you are likely to be receptive to ideas about change in general. Incomers have not been conditioned into thinking everything local is perfect and cannot be improved upon. "locals" appear to be reared with this belief. Perhaps it is a rationalisation adopted by families so scared of the outside world that they have stayed put for generations - something that is nothing to boast about imho.

29/3/07 9:24 pm
Anonymous said...

I have sympathy with your comment, but it's possible that the incomers are leaving an imperfect situation - which I would say most of us live in anyway - and are trying to find something better.
Maybe the locals can't or won't leave that imperfect situation, but because it's what they know they have to believe it to be best?
I'm a local who went looking - B'mouth is a big Swanage, Cambridge was flat and Yorkshire foggy; I LOVE France, but don't want to live there, I came back to Swanage. It's problems and arguments are nothing in the big scheme of things.
The good points far outway the bad.
ITOP

29/3/07 9:44 pm
Anonymous said...

Whats noticeable is that the "locals" always come up with almost exactly the same form of words about incomers. Its like advert slogans and as it bears no resemblance to reality you have to look beyond the words used.

The odd thing in the Swanageview is that we have had more than one local supporting the "modern" designs proposed for the Pierhead site and a number of incomers objecting to the change and wanting something more in keeping with its surroundings. Why don't the "locals" demand that the existing building be restored?

Still, thats all part of their entertainment value. We can't expect consistency.

By the way, things don't change. Thomas Hardy had a sort of rustic chorus of locals lurking in the background in his novels. They commented on the action but nobody took any notice of them.

7.31 asks why those who find the "locals" views obnoxious don't move away. I suppose its because they don't regard "locals" as anything more than a minor nuisance. They don't really impinge on most peoples lives.

29/3/07 10:18 pm
Anonymous said...

Surely a local is just somebody who is lucky enough to live here, and a non-local is a visitor?
Tourists ask people: "Are you a local?" and mean just what I've said. They don't expect a qualified reply such as:
"Well, I do live here but I've not got three generations in the graveyard so the people who have don't regard me as local."

30/3/07 5:46 am
Anonymous said...

I would go along with the common snese definition that a local is someone who lives here but as we have seen elsewhere on Swanageview there is a tendency that maintains that you can live locally without being a "local". I have been putting forward possible explanations of this paradox. The problem is the "locals" do not have any obvious characteristics to dsitinguish themselves from local residents. Their position is very much like that of native Welsh speakers in parts of rural Wales, or Gaelic speakers in the Western Isles, except they don't have a language or any sort of distinct culture. A chip on the shoulder perhaps but you can't see that.

30/3/07 9:49 am
Anonymous said...

I would very much like to disagree with the last poster, cuz I work over the water and have to endure much ribaldry; if I were more sensitive I'd say racism, because I come fom Swanage.
But he's right EXCEPT in one major area. I'm a balanced personality because I have a chip on each shoulder!
ITOP

30/3/07 8:15 pm
Anonymous said...

ITOP
Having had a day to ponder on this situation I think that I begin to see that we locals ARE insignificant.

Dorset, let alone Swanage, is famous for very little.
A few people - most of whom moved away.
A beautiful environment.

I think the thing that sums us up (metaphorically) is that we live in a county with no motorways.
Maybe this is what shapes the local character. If you're going somewhere, expect it to be slow.
I think that we keep our heads down and look for the quiet life.
We don't want to engage with modern times.

Nationally, Dorset is a minority.
Locally, the locals are a minority.

BUT HEY, we live in the age of minorities, I think I'll set up a Save The Locals campaign, although, I probably can't be bothered.

31/3/07 6:34 pm
Anonymous said...

can I join your campaign im sure we could get funding from the lottery. after all we are a deserving cause. fancy that all that moneey we couwd be finnalley educattedd and learn to live in harmoany with the outsiders.

31/3/07 11:41 pm
Anonymous said...

Could always use the money for a toll gate at corfe and use the proceeds towards affordable housing projects?

1/4/07 12:03 am
Anonymous said...

Yeah, lets go back into the past and try what we've done before!

1/4/07 7:10 am
Anonymous said...

i was out in wareham last night having a meal, and got chatting to a PDC councillor, he said at least 30 new house for locals only were being built in the swanage parish area, said there would be strict rules and regulations who has what,
at least its a step forward in the right direction.

1/4/07 9:30 am
Anonymous said...

It's easy for someone to SAY that. Did he tell you how anyone will make sure a house is for locals or not? Which takes you right back to definitions again. The only 'local' housing scheme I've heard about is the cooperative venture at Worth, a self-build scheme for half a dozen houses or so. Perhaps you could ask your friendly PDC councillor to be specific about which developments he means. I think he's telling porkies.

1/4/07 10:05 am
Anonymous said...

It is an election year dont forget. But its apperently tru.

1/4/07 1:54 pm
Anonymous said...

I think you'll find that PDC have a target to build 32 house a year.

1/4/07 3:48 pm
Anonymous said...

Now c'mon guys n gals let's stop cross posting.
This is a thread about, what is a local.
I'm coming to the conclusion that it's a tribal thing.
I have local - in the been here along time defintion - friends, who support Leeds (footie), I support Chelsea. It's the main thing that divides us, and is tribal. Cricket, Rugby, which is the best Pub, Mozart, Beethoven, Blur, Oasis, etc etc.
But we're friends - however, we like our divisions, is it a need to show that we're individuals even tho' we belong to the same pack?
ITOP

2/4/07 9:12 pm

Post a Comment

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)