swanageview: Schools

Saturday, November 22, 2008

Schools

http://tinyurl.com/6je97k

Local schooling revamp is back on the agenda.

We could open a 'book' on this.

Mount Scar and St Marks to move to the Middle School, would be my bet.

I worry how it'll effect St Georges and Corfe primarys.

Posted by Anonymous to swanageview at 6:45 AM

29 comments:

Anonymous said...: AsI posted some months back the proposals to merge Mount Scar and middle schools has come to pas. This will be a disaster for Swanage. sending even younger kids ten miles away to schools where they will get no after school activity, wasting time and resourses buses co2 etc. giving the Mount Scar site to the catholic school adds injury to injury. and should be resisted by everyone who pays taxes for state funded, secular education. the sale and development of MS playing field is back again. the two tier system can work if the council uses funds from the sale and development of WHAREHAM middle school(to merge with Purbeck) to expand the Swanage middle school site into a true secondary school with full resourses and provision for hi tech education. this is an impending political storm. the NEW head of Mount Scar seems ready to sell out Swanage too! A new dispensation for local schools is needed, but NOT at the expense of Swanage and our children. Peverilpen; 27/11/08 8:45 pm
Anonymous said...: The idea of sending Swanage kids away for their education is interesting.

I was educated in Swanage 'til I was 14 and then sent away to Purbeck. I think that it did me good. It got me to meet far more people and began to expand my mind and social network.

As for there being no after school activities at Purbeck, sorry, but there are plenty - getting home afterwards seems to be the problem.

OK lets start lobbying Roger to ensure that any Purbeck student can get home at anytime.

Sorry, couldn't resist, I work in education, Roger is Mr Holman - the HEAD.

If the transport was timetabled buses then we'd actually be making more efficient use of our public transport.

Giving away the Mount Scar site - oh how we date ourselves! - I've heard nothing about that. But renting it to St Mary's might not be a bad idea.

I don't think that Wareham middle will disappear, but if it does then good idea.

As for Swanage middle becoming a full secondary, it'd be a risky move - mainly in a financial way.

Let's face it, this is largely about finances.

Best also to bear in mind that Mount Scar's ACTING head teacher must already know about the situation.; 29/11/08 5:44 pm
Anonymous said...: The taxpayer has been paying towards the costs of church schools ever since Gladstone's time. Ever willing to avoid spending public cash he bamboozled the churches into building schools to avoid the horrid threat (to mid-victorians) of godless state schools like most of the rest of the world has. The state very rapidly took over paying the salaries and we have been paying to have our kids heads filled with religious propaganda ever since. Funnily enough all a great waste of money as it acts largely as aversion therapy and the great british public are not exactly noted for church attendance.; 30/11/08 10:54 am
Anonymous said...: Welcome back to the Virtual Swanage Forum, who have and excellent link

http://www.swanageforum.co.uk

to this issue.

They actually have 2 links but only the first really matters cuz the 2nd is just part of the first.

Time for a read.; 30/11/08 6:10 pm
Anonymous said...: This goes out for public consultation early next year and will be implemented in 2010, or 11 - if we agree!; 6/12/08 6:14 pm
Anonymous said...: Bit of an update.

The proposed merger of Swanage First with St Marks will cost about 9 million.

And then it'll all be given to the C 0f E (Salisbury Diocese).

It'll mean that all schools within 14miles will be Church based.

(Nationally: 1 in 3 are Church, Dorset 2 in 3)

Gov't and Dorset policy is to provide choice and diversity.

Will there be school buses to Upton - NO.

By the way, Swanage First has a waiting list, St Marks has spare places.

It's then possible that St Mary's will then move to the Mount Scar site.

Even tho' the Mount Scar site is able to take St Mark's students - spacewise.; 20/12/08 2:20 pm
Anonymous said...: Forget to add there'll be 2 meetings late in Jan. one at Swanage First and one at the Mowlem.

I'll supply dates when I can - unless someone else can.; 20/12/08 4:46 pm
Anonymous said...: According to DCC, quote: "there are currently in excess of 1,000 surplus (school) places across the three tier Purbeck pyramid, representing approximately 20% of the places available." I therefore find it hard to believe that Swanage First School has a waiting list. Can the statement made earlier be substantiated please?

As someone who doesn’t go to church very often I wouldn’t get hung up about C of E schools. My son goes to St. Mark’s Herston (a much improved school in recent years incidentally) and I don’t perceive anything unduly religious about the teaching there. In fact it’s very low key and in practice unlikely to be much different from other LEA controlled schools.

Finally, many parents with children who go to Swanage First or St. Mark’s are understandably resenting the fact that St. George’s in Langton is likely to be retained as a village primary school – even though only a tiny proportion of pupils there actually live in the parish!; 20/12/08 8:03 pm
Paul Angel said...: Can I just butt in, as someone who ia a parent at Swanage First and is fully aware of the current proposals. Please note that these are the proposals I have read to date and that I speak from my own opinions and don't represent the school other than as a campaigner against closure.

The actual proposal is to close the Middle School, close Swanage First, close St Marks and to give Sty Mary's the option to move on to the Mount Scar site if they want to. A new Church of England school would be built (or the current buildings re-modelled) on the Middle School site and the children of St Marks and Swanage First would be sent there in around 2011. So far parents have been excluded from discussions, though the Anglican and RC diocese have had heavy input. A Public Consultation on the final plans is due to start on Jan 7th and to run for 6 weeks. Please be ready with your pens to write to DCC - but please make sure all your facts are in place first, as there are several innacuracies in this thread and they will ignore letters that contain inaccurate details!

From everything I have been told, Swanage First School parents, governors and staff oppose this on several grounds:

Educationally - Swanage First School is outstanding according to Ofsted. This was achieved because of our excellent staff and the commitment of local parents to the school. A new school would be starting from scratch, with no guarntee whatsoever that it would achieve outstanding status again.

Our site - if DCC do close the Middle School, we are the only school in town which has the room to expand into a primary with minimal disruption. There is absolutely no need for us to move and no justification.

Location - We are a community school at the heart of the town and that is where we want to stay. At the moment most children walk to school and parents are heavily involved in all aspects because we all live within a short ditance. If we have to move to a site on the outskirts of town, we'll all be driving, as we can't expect young children to walk the distance, and we all know the road is a death trap.

Diversity - we have no criticism of any other school. We are lucky in Swanage to have 4 great schools for our kids to go to. But at Swanage First we are a non-denominational community school and that is how we want to stay. The school serves parents of many Christian denominations and over the years the school has served families of different faiths, and atheists and agnostics probably make up the largest number. We choose the school because we want an outstanding school in the town centre and to some of us the non-denominational aspect is very, very important. This isn't an argument about faith schools, though, it is about choice and diversity, and non-faith is as important as faith to a vast number of people in this town.

The idea that a school with Church od England status, particularly Voluntary Aided, as proposed, has little difference to a community school should also be dipelled, however (and to me this is important). A CE school has the right to discriminate against its staff, especially at senior level, on religious grounds. A community school can employ staff based on their skills and experience, without prejudice. A CE school, if heavily subscribed, can also discriminate against children if their parents do not attend church. A community school takes all children based on where they live. A CE school's ethos is obviously Christian, and depending on the views of the headteacher and Governors the teaching does not have to reflect the national curriculum. A community school can teach children to behave ethically and empathetically without resort to evangalising.

I know that there are other options which could be considered, options that pose no threat to any other school. I'm not in a position at the moment to say what they are unfortunately, as I've only heard brief ideas. If anyone else out there has suggestions though, please put them forward!

I should also say, while I'm here, that Mr Mason, our new headteacher (no longer acting, he was appointed some months ago) is, along with the heads of most if not all first schools in Purbeck in favour of closing the middle school. Out of the many headteachers who have now put there name to a letter approving the change, he was just the one who got quoted in the Advertiser. There are sound financial (and therefore educational) reasons for changing to a two tier system as there aren't enough kids in the rising years in Purbeck to fund the upper school propoerly - adding in all the kids aged over 11 would boost numbers and therfore funds, making sure that the school remains able to teach a full curriculum. I don't personally agree with the closure of the middle schools, but I do understand the need to boost numbers at Purbeck. I just think that there must be another way.

Oh, and the headteacher at Purbeck is Richard Holman - Roger is the photographer!

I hope that's made a few things clearer - as I say, these are the facts as I have read and the above opinions are my own.

Paul Angel (not anonymous!); 20/12/08 9:26 pm
Paul Angel said...: Oh - I forgot to mention:

Swanage First used to have what's called a 'one and a half' form intake - I'm not sure how that worked in practice, but it meant that once upon a time it could take over 200 children. There are fewer children in Swanage now and so a few years back the school started to take on one form at a time, or 30 children in a class.

DCC still has the school down as holding over 200 children, even though it can only teach 150 or so. Currently there are in reality 9 spare spaces in years 2 and 3. This is where this completely bonkers figure (my own opinion!) of 1000 spare spaces comes from. All of the schools are still being measured as if this were 10 or more years ago, when the reality now is that all schools in Purbeck are smaller and are able to teach more effectively as a result. For some schools this may be financialy unsustainable, if they can only attract a low intake each year.

There is a waiting list at Swanage First because there are more than 30 children who appliued for spaces in reception year. A large number of families have relocated to the town centre, moving into what once were empty second homes (anoither hot topic!) and many bringing valuable businesses and boosting the local economy. Many of them are really upset about the threat to Swanage First because they've specifically chosen a non-faith school with a fantastic location and outstanding quality education. Its closure may well drive people away again.

Incidentally - I heard at a parents meeting the other night that some people who'd wanted to apply for a space at Swanage First had been told not to bother and that they should apply for St Marks instead. These are non-Christian people who live near Mount Scar. This is total conspiracy theory area and I've already been told my suspicions are nonsense, but it sounded like DCC were already trying to drive people towards a faith school to show that there weren't so many people trying to get in to the school they want to shut down! Has anyone else heard about this?; 20/12/08 9:47 pm
Anonymous said...: Two good posts Paul

and as I said

"By the way, Swanage First has a waiting list, St Marks has spare places".; 20/12/08 10:33 pm
Anonymous said...: Paul, thanks for this. The defence of your school – Swanage First – is to be applauded although I think it is unfortunate that as part of this you have criticised our C of E first schools. I can’t speak for St. George’s School but at St. Mark’s there are children from all walks of life, religion (including lack of) and race who learn happily together and who are taught to respect each other – whatever their backgrounds. I’ve not encountered any evangelism (Nativity Play aside!) and indeed as far as I can tell the RE syllabus is fully in accordance with the national curriculum with multi faith teaching taking place. The expression ‘faith school’ is emotive and tends to drum up images of Islamic or Hindu extremism.

It is sad if any people have been put off St. Mark’s for the reasons you quote. Certainly I’ve not come across this in the 20 odd years I’ve been living in Swanage. Some people may still unfortunately look down on the school as it is located in the poorer part of town and children from the ‘Council estate’ go there. But religious opposition has not in my experience come into it. Nor in my opinion should it.

Personally I am opposed to the closure of any of our schools, particularly as at Swanage Middle they now have a truly excellent head teacher in the shape of Mr. Pratton. To lose him from the system, would I feel be a very great loss.

Let’s hope that the good people of Swanage and Purbeck rise to the occasion and stand up to what is being proposed.

With reference to your final question: no, I’ve not heard anything about parents “who'd wanted to apply for a space at Swanage First had been told not to bother and that they should apply for St Marks instead”. This would be totally unethical.; 21/12/08 1:18 am
Anonymous said...: Keeping Swanage Community First School is not about faith v. non-faith. It's about keeping a choice. Swanage First teach about all of the main religions and they go to local churches each year for Christian Harvest festivals. They also have Christmas nativities and easter celebrations just like any other school. They take their kids to visit the Baptist and Parish churches as part of their RE work too.
Mount Scar (Swanage First) is a non-denominational community school though and Paul is right to say that it would be the only one for miles if it goes. Parents should have the choice whether they want to send their children to a church or a community school. Paul is not alone in wanting a non-church school for his children.
It doesn't matter what your personal preferences are. The point is, that at the moment you can have one. If Mount Scar closes, there will be no choice.
For me a stronger argument is the removal of a school from the centre of town, where most of the children who go to the school live. Children as young as four will need to walk to the middle school. To do this from some areas of town would mean numerous crossings of the road because of a lack of adequate footpaths. Not an easy task to manage with a push chair! For parents who have children in part time Reception or playgroup as well as older children, this could mean 4 journeys a day. The result will be that more people will drive thier kids to school and increase an already congested road out of town at school run times. Parking is wowfully inadequate in Herston and if you have ever tried to turn around down by the Middle School, you will realise it is dangerous too. The council would have to build new entrances to the school and possibly a new road system to cope with the increase in traffic. At a time when the news is full of stuff about childhood obesity and carbon footprints, this is not exactly the healthy option in more ways than one.; 21/12/08 3:39 am
Anonymous said...: I totally agree with all the arguments raised for opposing the closure of Swanage First based on location, road safety and educational performance but sorry I’m afraid you’ll never convince me of the church - community differences. The RE teaching at St. Mark’s is identical to that referred to in the post above. Were some of the extreme examples of religious intolerance highlighted earlier ever to materialise (and in practice they couldn’t be further from the truth) then the LEA, never mind the parents, would I’m sure have plenty to say and the school’s reputation would nosedive. You are 100% right to defend Mount Scar and its place in the community but please don’t forget that St. Mark’s is also important to its community (Herston) – regardless of race or religion. Both are lovely schools that due to their size have a feeling of intimacy, something which is so important for very young school children. I fear that this would not be present in a new Primary School at the Middle School site.

My difference of opinion on one issue shouldn’t be allowed to detract from the fact that you can count on me to actively oppose the closure programme and creation of the new Primary School.; 21/12/08 8:55 am
Anonymous said...: We should perhaps be concentrating on saving BOTH schools with their individual character. They meet the needs of different groups of people in different catchment areas. I am sure too that you would find very little differenc in the way that both schools teach RE.
I think, unfortunatley, that some supporters of Swanage First have been pushed down the 'non-church school' route by the LA as there is a case to be held up about the way that the Salisbuury Diocese can quite legally discriminate against staff at the school who may not be practising Anglicans. Whilst in reality this may not happen at St Marks, it is a possibility. Especially when there could be two sets of staff applying for positions in just one school.
It would be a travesty if those in power divide the community and set school against school in all of this.; 21/12/08 10:34 am
Anonymous said...: What do Johova's Witnesses feel about the loss of the only Community school? As I understand, they feel that Religious Education is the responsibility of the parents and can request that their children are withdrawn from RE lessons and collective worship.They do not celebrate Christmas and Easter and object to the symbol of the cross. I am wondering therefore what their position on their children attending a Church of England school would be. Could anyone enlighten me?; 21/12/08 10:47 am
Anonymous said...: I’m not sure about the current situation but I know of at least two Jehovah’s Witnesses who attended St. Marks as puils in the past. No doubt they did not participate in RE and assembly – as would be the case at any other LEA controlled school.; 21/12/08 11:59 am
Anonymous said...: I had the poor fortune to attend St Marks First School in the early 90s. I sincerely hope that it has changed since then. The attitude to religion at this stage was one of indoctrination rather than education.

This said I can also remember attending the middle school and being told by the then head teacher that “we know that god created the universe, the big bang just explains how”.

I will admit that my view on the matter of religion in education is not a mainstream one. I am entirely in favour of education children about religion but I feel that church schools cross the line from education about religion to attempting to indoctrinate children into religion. As such I would suggest that there should be no state funding for religious schools. This is obviously a matter of national rather than local policy but within the local example I would suggest that allowing the church schools to become the only schools in Swanage would be deeply undesirable.; 21/12/08 1:40 pm
Paul Angel said...: Paul here again - it's my first chance to post post-Christmas!

Apologies to anyone who thought I was criticising either St George's or St Mark's - it wasn't my intention! My intention was to make it clear why it is important to some people to have the choice of a non-denominational school and that part of this is the potential for discrimination against non-church people. It does happen in over-subscribed schools, and for the advancement of staff it is a real issue. It is important if we are to prevent closure of any school that we are all aware of the issues but that we don't fight amongst ourselves over who has the best ethos while 'they' win the day!

The prospect of any school closing is an awful one though. I was looking forward to my kids moving up in a gradual progression through the Middle to the Upper school. I understand the funding issues that have lead to the conclusion that Swanage Middle should close, but I still think it's the numbers that are wrong and that DCC should re-count and stand up to whoever it is at DSCF that is insisting they re-shuffle instead.

The big issue for parents at Swanage First, though, is location. Most of us live nearby and a majority walk daily. I'm sure St Marks is the same, and the others too. It isn't just that that is good for the environment either - we communicate with each other, we help out at school events, we know each other's kids and that helps to connect them to their neighbourhood and to keep them safe. At Mount Scar we're lucky to be close to all the facilities the town offers too - the kids walk to Durlston, to the lifeboat, to the fire station, to Woolies (sob!) and to visit the elderly after harvest festival and at Christmas for singalongs, and loads of other things. If they can't do this sort of stuff, their education and their connection to the town suffers. The school won't be able to afford busses for all these things. And if we have to travel over a mile to get them to school, we will all drive and it will change our town and our connections with our community.

I think what's really vital is that when the public meeting is held at the Mowlem in late January, the people of Swanage turn out to defend our kids against these proposals that will damage our town forever. They've had to retreat over the daycare centre, the hospital (different authority, but the same type of thing) and the tip. We can fight them off again and maybe save all 5 of our schools!

We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight on the hills and in the Mowlem - we shall never surrender...

OK - enough!; 30/12/08 9:15 pm
Paul Angel said...: why am i the only one with a picture...?; 30/12/08 9:16 pm
Anonymous said...: praps youre the only one capable of taking photos.

Apart from that, good post.; 30/12/08 11:22 pm
Anonymous said...: You are the ony one brave enough to show who you are. Your comments about connecting to the neighbourhood are spot on Paul. Swanage has a reputation for standing up for what it believes in and we need to believe that we too can win this fight and send DCC back to the drawingboard to rethink.
To do this we need a huge show of strength at the public meeting in the Mowlem.; 31/12/08 10:10 am
Anonymous said...: We moved to Swanage specifically to send our children to Swanage First School and my wife and I soon found we are not alone. The schools in this town have started attracting young families from far and wide.

We would not have come if the proposal had already happened. We wanted a small local school in a friendly community, not a daily school run to an out of town campus. The scheme will end up making the problem of depopulation in Swanage worse.; 4/1/09 12:53 am
Paul Angel said...: The full proposal is here at last:

http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=388931

for you to make your own judgements.; 6/1/09 5:56 pm
Paul Angel said...: The link:
http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=388931; 6/1/09 5:58 pm
Anonymous said...: This part of the report has been made deliberately vague:
'Swanage St.Mark’s and Swanage First schools would close and move to theexisting middle school site to form a new primary school. The school would open with a new name. We welcome views from all sections of the community on the preferred status of the proposed school.'

DCC Officers have made it very clear that they their intention has been to make the new school a VA C of E school. It is as a result of campaigning so far that they have now not stated the status of the proposed new school. If you believe that Swanage should retain the only Community school within 16 miles (remember all Middle Schools are Community schools and they plan to shut all of them too)you need to write and say so. This is essentially asking you whether you would prefer a Community School or a church school (that is what they mean by the 'status' of the new school).
If you feel strongly that in the interest of parental choice and diversity Swanage should keep a CE, RC and Community option you must tell them this loudly and clearly. This will be your only chance!
If nobody mentions it because they do not understand what the 'preferred status' is talking about, then DCC will say no body cares about the issue and do what they want.; 6/1/09 7:37 pm
Anonymous said...: Postings on this site have dried up in recent days which is perhaps surprising due to the fact that the consultation process and some ‘Save Our School’ campaigns are now in full swing.

At the risk of incurring the wrath of the ‘SOS’ campaigners I wish to offer a view on why I think that a proposed new primary school in Swanage is a good idea. At the outset I would say that I would be willing to accept that the status of the new school should be a Community one.

Whether we like it or not financial and educational considerations in this matter are intertwined. The financial case for moving from a three tier to a two tier structure in Purbeck is overwhelming. If we retain a three tier system there is a real risk that our children will receive a poorly funded education in the years to come potentially leading to poor exam results and in turn greatly reduced career prospects in a very competitive world. This is a chance that I do not want to take.

A total of £9 million has been allocated in the review to build a new Swanage Primary School. This is a once in a generation opportunity to obtain a new state of the art school fit for the 21st Century – the detailed design of which we can influence. Faced with the choice I think that our children should be allowed to grasp this opportunity. What right do we have to effectively say to our children (and perhaps eventually our grandchildren) “Sorry you had a chance to have a modern school in 2009 but we thought you could make do with the old Victorian schools?” Is there not even the slightest risk that we are being sentimental here rather than forward looking? Please take the time to have a look at Lytchett Matravers Primary School (Ofsted report “outstanding”) for a good example of what a new school can be like.

All first school children in Swanage currently have to attend the Herston site (currently Middle School) once they reach the age of nine. Yes, there are genuine environmental and road safety concerns about reducing the age that they have to do this but these can potentially be overcome, for example through much improved road access to the school, traffic calming measures and even the provision of dedicated mini buses.

I don’t expect to convince everyone here but I think that we should at least seriously consider a new school rather than reject it impulsively as many parents are now being encouraged to do.

For the avoidance of doubt please note that I am a local parent and not a County Council employee - nor am I related to one.

16/01/09; 16/1/09 4:54 pm
Anonymous said...: Now I know why its been quiet here - there's a new discussion over at:

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8676281&postID=7155436798026138381&page=1

See you there; 16/1/09 7:33 pm
Anonymous said...: We moved to Swanage specifically to send our children to Swanage First School and my wife and I soon found we are not alone. The schools in this town have started attracting young families from far and wide.

We would not have come if the proposal had already happened. We wanted a small local school in a friendly community, not a daily school run to an out of town campus. The scheme will end up making the problem of depopulation in Swanage worse.

12:53 AM

Hi Paul
You moved here for all the right reasons! To join a rural community and to bring your children up in a nurturing environment. Thats why we live here too!

I do not understand why others move to this area, from the city, and then, after a while, decide that we are too laid back, and 'small minded' and then they try to change us and the way of life that is the very reason why they moved here in the first place! I would like to say to these people, that you may think that the Purbeck People are stupid but beware, we are a close knit community that clan together in times of need. We love the way it is and will protect our way of life.; 1/2/09 9:30 pm

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