0300 LICENCE EXTENSION for the RAINBOW KEBAB on Lower High Street, (Lower High Street should be re-named ‘High High Street’ for the amount of alcohol licenses already there, when a drunk falls over he/she is still within reach of another drink!).
The two police officers on duty for Purbeck over night, if they come to Swanage and were to arrest one of the hundreds of riotous drunks the nearest custody suites are either Poole or Dorchester thereby taking up half their shift processing them ‘within their Human Rights’, (what of the Rights of Swanage Council Tax payers and residents ?) Why not have ‘holding suites/cells’ at Swanage Police Station, (if it is still there) and transport them in bulk to Poole for processing, or better still don’t grant anymore alcohol licenses or renew existing ones.
Swanage Resident.
If you agree then post a comment or better still write with your complaint to:-
LICENSING OFFICER.
CLARE STRATFORD.
PCD WESTPORT HOUSE,
WORGRET ROAD,
WAREHAM, BH20 4PPP
Or email; licensing@purbeck-dc.gov.uk
NOT LATER THAN THE 28th JULY 2011.
Posted by Anonymous to swanageview at 13/7/11 11:48 AM
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147 comments:
Move!
Makes you wonder why the Police didn't oppose this extension.
The same can be said for the open drug dealing going on around the Lower High Street on Friday and Saturdays'
Proof ?
When I was a kid virtually everyone went to the fish and chip shop on the way home at 11pm/12 when the pubs closed. Now Dinos and the chip shops in the Square can barely be bothered to stay open. Well done Rainbow for providing a great service! I have noticed when returning from London on the last train this is the only place open, and thank goodness for it.
If this causes a nuisance, people get out of hand or noisy, these are different matters. If you want the Town to go to bed at midnight change the licensing laws. However I believe there should be at least one place where young people can go until the early hours to get the dirty water off their chests.
The best improvement Rainbow (and Cauldron) could make to Swanage a better place would be to get their wheelie bins off Burt's place.
David Furmage at 4:44 above asked
for Proof so come down to the area behind the 'Lower High Street' late any Friday or Saturday and watch, (but don't be seen).
Will they be required to have a kebab in order to have an alcoholic drink ? The ‘Snack Bar’ when it applied said they wanted to serve a market that if someone wanted a beer or glass of wine with their snack they could serve them. However, now I am unable to see any food at the ‘SNACK BAR’ only bottles and optics, not even a bag of nuts.
So who did you report this to?
This is crap. All over the rest of Europe you can get a beer in McDonalds or KFC. It's the Uk population which needs educating not local businesses which need regulating.
"The ‘Snack Bar’ when it applied said they wanted to serve a market that if someone wanted a beer or glass of wine with their snack they could serve them".
Quite, business models change. When the wine bar Tawny's opened they expected people to go in and drink. The Justices even restricted them to bottled beer only. (why?)
It turned out as a bistro. You would be hard pressed to find anyone in there just drinking. Should we take away their food license?
The sb is just about the best thing that has happened in Swanage for years and it's a pity the Mowlem Trustees aren't begging them to open a second branch in the old Viking bar.
ps they close strictly at midnight
I have to agree. The sckbar is run in an extemporary manner, save for the fact that the premises are too small for the crowd who wish to drink in there at the weekends and holidays. At any sign of trouble the proprietors immediately intervene, and underage drinking or drug taking is non existant. A fine example to other publicans in the Town; and to Swanage of what can be achieved with a little thinking outside the box.
A fine example to other publicans in the Town;
please be carefull of comments like that.
If you see or are aware of drug dealing make notes and report it not on here but to the police, drug dealing goes on all over the place. There have been bars in lower high st for years, or did you not check?
Funny that the Snackbar don't do food! I eat the best nachos there last week. And crisps and nuts are abundant. Defiantly a fine place to chill and drink and eat with friends and family ;)
Having lived nearby, I can say that the SB owners are not really concerned
about noise or their "patrons" obstructing the pavement, people in wheelchairs having to go onto the roadway.Obviously not the best place for it
Its the perfect place! It's just that they haven't closed (well pedestrianised)the road yet between Jenkins and the Pier. Bring it on.
As an outsider this makes Swanage sound a terrible place. 'Open drug dealing', 'noise' from this snack bar, pavements being blocked etc. Is this really true ? Is Swanage somewhere to move to after all?
Any unbiased views?
This is restricted to a very small area in the lower High Street, and possibly the vicinity of Subway in Station Road. You would be hard put to it to find a town that does not have some drug retailers and this is more to do with the absurdity of our laws than any particular perfidity on the part of Swanage's inhabitants. Go a hundred yards away and you are out of it. If it is bothersome remember most of Swanage is extremely quiet and suburban.
None of this takes place from the Snackbar , we just have a few moaners who live in the centre of town and think it should be quiet 24/7 that's all.
Its a wonderful place to come a live , some great views and things to do;)
Why should they have other people's noise nuisance inflicted on them? Saying the other people enjoy making the noise or that successful businesses rely on it is not an answer.
It's not just people living nearby who are woken up at 3 or 4 in the morning many weekends. The drunk louts going home from Bar Seven and other places carry on making a noise, throwing up, peeing in gardens, breaking things, all their way home. I've heard complaints from people by the Mill Pond, and on up Priest's Road. And the centre of town can be very unpleasant even quite early on. Sometimes it's quite intimidating just to walk from the Square to the Quay, as you can't walk on the pavement without having to force your way through the crowds. Must be impossible for people in wheelchairs, buggies or parents with children.
The drunk louts going home from Bar Seve
I think bar 7 is on probation complain then, simples. Don't bitch and moan on here write a letter of complaint
.And the centre of town can be very unpleasant even quite early on. Sometimes it's quite intimidating just to walk from the Square to the Quay, ..... thats why it called a town centre, its just that noisey busy etc, go to any other towns large or small and they are similar, and yes I have been to many over the last year or so.
The only problem is late at night and thats caused by the chavs (spawn of 13 yrs of labour) but with them just keep moaning at the police and they will act.
When I walk down to Jenkins for a paper on Saturday and Sunday mornings it’s not a pleasant walk Piggy Lane and Sentry road are littered with a selection of beer cans plastic food boxes used condoms etc. Seymer Road pavement alongside the ‘Club’ is awash with vomit.
I recall CCTV having been installed around the town including the lower High Street, but no doubt with the cut backs no one is available to man the screens.
"we just have a few moaners who live in the centre of town and think it should be quiet 24/7 that's all."
Exactly Dave, the streets should be quiet. You really don't get it. If people want to make a noise they should be doing it inside, with the door closed. When they have finished they should go home quietly. How can you object to that?
Thanks for all your Snack Bar comments and support. We very much appreciate the feedback and always try to work with the community to improve. That is what it is all about...working together, listening and trying to come up with solutions and compromises. If anyone ever wants to discuss an issue, myself or Angelo will always listen, so please drop by. It is much better to do things face to face rather than with an anonymous post. Don't let it fester come by! Carlo
A lot of the problem is about unintended consequences. Snackbar do not intend their customers to use Burts Lane and the alley behind the Purbeck Hotel as a toilet but it happens. No doubt customers of other premises are guilty as well.
Lets be positive though. Perhaps it is time to consider larger premsies. The Mowlem restaurant and bar, for example. If you could achieve there what you have achieved in tiny premises in the High Street it would bring that part of town back to life in a big way.
The comment of Carlo above from The Snack Bar is at least a responsible response, but then as a Councillor he has to be. What of the other numerous Licensees? Their silence is deafening.
The introduction of less restrictive licensing controls has effectively removed any control the Federation of Licensed Victuallers Associations (FLVA) had over its members.
Councillors as it can be seen above may have a vested interest in licensed outlets.
The demise of the Swanage Residents Association, (through lack of support), removed the last reliable/trustworthy conduit left to the Residents to the councils, police etc.
Carlo is not the councillor , his brother Angelou is!
And what they have done to such a small place is amazing. People from all over the world have enjoyed the Snackbar experience and hopefully we will still be enjoying it into the furture:)
As for noise coming out of town yep it does happen and sometimes it is worse when the wind is on an easterly because the sounds travels right up through the town. And yes I can hear it up here at steer road:) though the way I see it , people have been spending money in town and that's a good thing especially with the current money crisis going on. Or the council should maybe employ some noise police , thou personally I would hand out ear plugs to the ones who moan.
What of the other numerous Licensees? Their silence is deafening
do You mean all licensees or those in the area you hate?
1156 ~ Ear Plugs plugs won't stand up all the dozen or so wheelie bins, (some full) that were tipped over Saturday night Sunday morning in Marshall Row, Burts Place, Sentry Road etc. or pick up the debris blown/draged out by the birds and cats etc
Ear Plugs plugs won't stand up all the dozen or so wheelie bins, (some full) that were tipped over Saturday night Sunday morning in Marshall Row, Burts Place, Sentry Road etc. or pick up the debris blown/draged out by the birds and cats etc
so you are 100% sure this was done by drunk people who used the snack bar/other lower high st premises then as in will go to court and give eveidence of same?
There seem to be a variety of responses from those batting for the licensees. None of them offer any solution. The approach is very much along the lines that the noise and general nuiscance is not the fault of the late opening establishments or does not matter. This is likely to rebound on them. Since the problem would go away if they had to close early it is down to them to ensure that their custmers leave in a sensible frame of mind otherwise we will all have to go to bed early.
Since when did ear plugs stop shop windows being smashed !!
Can't remember the last time seeing a shop window boarded up in town. Actually I can when the purbeck shut down:)
Try the cafe 4 weeks ago ( the really expensive curved one) or the telephone box a few days ago or the Ship a few weeks after that
Dave, you seem to have suffered a memory lapse. There were two broken panes one night last December, along with various cars jumped on in the same drunken escapade. Others since.
I really find the "let them wear earplugs" attitude arrogant and offensive.
There were two broken panes one night last December, along with various cars jumped on in the same drunken escapade. Others since
I know somone who did that out of the town centre, and was intoxicated in the RBL so dont feel it all about the town centre.
Complain by all means, put your money where your mouth is get a solicitor go to the licensing panel then be prepared for a court appearance, £250 per hr plus vat ohh wait a mo you wont do that will you. get on here moan complain bitch and all but wont put your money where your mouth is. 90% plus of lower high st users are good honest nice people, so why should the majority suffer? you are tarring all busineses and revellers with the same brush. Are all catholic priest child molesters? are all scousers convicts? are all scotsman tight? I think not IF I put that on here it would rightly cause uproar.
When my partner and I have purchased our previous houses we visited the area at different times asked about noise walked around it night times day times rush hour etc ( you can now even check on line) does that make us a better person NO! a more sensible one YES! We had simillar trouble when we lived away from this area, it cost us and other neighbours money it was worth it, I even had an enviromental check done on one house. Either put up or shut up!
"90% plus of lower high st users are good honest nice people, so why should the majority suffer?"
First of all there are a lot more people whose peace is disturbed than there are peaceful revellers so the latter are not a majority except relative to the tiny number of miscreants
The answer to your question is simply because of the other 10%. How far to you want to take your absurd argument? 90% of drunk drivers do not have accidents, 90% of speeders do not crash so should we scrap speed limits and allow drunk driving? Let me pose an equally simple question. Would you accept having your windows broken or your car smashed up if the price of preventing it reduced the opportunity for some others to have a late night in a bar?
The answer to your question is simply because of the other 10%. How far to you want to take your absurd argument? 90% of drunk drivers do not have accidents, 90% of speeders do not crash so should we scrap speed limits and allow drunk driving
its your argument that is absurd surely even someone as dim as you can see that if 90% behave its not the majority, why should they suffer? I beleive that there should be night courts, fines and bans from the local pubs/clubs curfews on the culprits, not punish the rest of us I have been drinking for over 42 yrs never been arrested etc etc I enjoy a late night drink a few if I,m allowed why should I not enjoy this why why why? because we have a system that does not punnish bad people it only punnishes the good ones. Another example of spineless gutlees namby pamby govt:
Again I,ll throw down the gauntlet DO something about it, or are you spineless!
Re drunk drivers:
Ask those who have to clear up the carnage on the A351 Wareham Road on Saturday & Sunday Mornings. Have you ever notice the wrecked trees and traffic islands, even on occasions the destroyed vehicles?
In light of all the agro regarding the anti social behaviour induced from the Lower High Street. I propose we hereby ask the ‘Pillars of Swanage Society’ to address the problems set out above and use their infinite influence to resolve them.
Being the 3rd Monday of the month they meet for their monthly meeting at their Masonic Temple in Marshall Row, so they can amicably resolve the problems set out above. Alternatively they should change the day of their meeting to late on Friday or Saturday and then revue their decision.
Would not be surprised if there's a masonic link. Why else have the authorities denied there's even a problem? Sounds like friends in high places in the business community with friends in high places in the police and the council.
Providing an adequate level of policing with local custody facilities would obviously cost a great deal more than the county police are able and willing to put in to Swanage. You may ask why it is that if the police are not in a position to ensure public safety late opening is permitted at all. A risk assessment is easy enough to conduct.
The club came close to loosing its license a few years ago and the problems that led to this have not gone away. It is completely pointless bewailing the fact that this impacts the innocent as much as the guilty. Lots of things do.
It would appear, based on these comments, that Swanage has more than its fair share of problems with alcohol, drugs and general disorder.
Nice advert for your tourism board.
Well if it is any consolation we are not alone
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/17/lyon-reduce-le-binge-drinking
It would appear, based on these comments, that Swanage has more than its fair share of problems with alcohol, drugs and general disorder.
Nice advert for your tourism board.
NO what we have is acertain style of resident who moans and groans on here wont do anything about it in real life 1) cost them money 2)spineless cowards because that means people will know who they are 3) residents who buy properties without research then complain when they do move in. 4) above residents that think they should change what is all ready here because "thtas what they want".
other than that swanage is not to bad. (allowing for the fact that general society has broken down after 13 yrs of labour)
Wow. Has anyone here actually left Swanage? We have a drink and drug problem? Hilarious. Visit inner city london or any other city?
The real issue here is not the amount of youngsters drinking but how about the huge amount of adults spending all day every day drinking in the many pubs here? Fantastic role models eh? How about some serious thought is finally put into creating real businesses Nd employment opportunities for young and old alike.
residents who buy properties without research then complain when they do move in. 4) above residents that think they should change what is all ready here because "thtas what they want".
So thats what its about. A typical "localist" resentment of incomers. Why shouldn't they try to change things they don't like? Why do you imagine Swanage should not change?
Not wishing to be woken at three in the morning by drunken idiots does not strike me as particularly unreasonable. Evidently there is a strand of opinion here that thinks it is.
Above says that The Club nearly lost it’s license and is still in breach. The Purbeck lost its license due to a drug raid and still remains closed. So bring it on for The Club.
If anything that makes alot of noise at night is the noise of these scooters bombing round town:( thing is why buy a house or flat in town centre knowing full well there is going to be noise and then try to change it. I mean come
on you would not play hop skip and jump on minefield , then complain your legs are been blown off:) Think before you buy!
well said david but i'm affarid it still exists people bu a property dont research the area then complain not just occasionally but it happens a lot.
was it on here a while ago that someone moaned about being pushed out at steppes hill estate ummmmmmmmmm get a brain. dont blame the locals. If you want peace and quiet live in the surrounding villages..... ohh wait the cows moo a lot naughty cows all that noise.
PS the purbeck also closed because it was a $77t hole.
In fairness we should recall that the Purbeck closed when it was sold rather when they had the drugs bother. Refurbishment has turned into a protracted process unfortunately. I did not say Bar Se7en was in breach although a number of people I have spoken to think it is and are actively pursuing this. Hence I said that the problems have not been resolved. Whether all parties can get together and find a resolution that works remains to be seen. There is an attitude held by many that seems to say that because a nuisance has been tolerated for a long time it has some sort of squatters rights and can continue. Unfortunately it is hard to see how this helps.
Is the owner/manager of bar7 not the chairman of pub watch?
On 15/7 at 4.02 within this chain of postings I asked for some unbiased views for someone considering a move to Swanage. WOW! Swanage has some problems. Thanks for the enlightenment, in particular noise at night travelling from the town on an easterly breeze as far as Steer Rd means it ain 't for me. I really appreciate the feedback here and for all those troubled by the drunks I just hope the police become interested enough to sort it out for you. Sounds like some enforcement orders may be required.... Why people need to make a disturbance beyond 11 - 1200 at night is beyond me. The pubs are open all day. Long enough to get really drunk (if you want)and be home before that time I would have thought!
"(allowing for the fact that general society has broken down after 13 yrs of labour)
not punish the rest of us I have been drinking for over 42 yrs never been arrested etc etc I enjoy a late night drink a few if I,m allowed why should I not enjoy this why why why?
put your money where your mouth is get a solicitor
Moaners"
Yes, thats the voice of genuine conservatism. Everything was hunky-dory until 1997. What is says is simple. Lets ignore the mayhem so long as I can do what I want to do. What do I care if people are woken up all night. Lets not even discuss it on here, thats moaning. You can seek a cure if you have the money. If there is a problem the answer is more cops, more courts, more punishments. Whatever it takes so long as I can go on boozing until 3 in the morning.
Yes, indeed, totally selfish, just what you expect from that mentality.
The first time I had a drink or cigarette was 1958 after having been conscripted into the Royal Navy for National Service, ‘tot’ ~ ‘grog’ was a tumbler which comprised I part strong Jamaican Rum a two parts water. We also had cigarettes 2shillings and three pence (10p) for a tin of 50 (Senior Service of course), or 8oz of Gold Block pipe tobacco. In hot climates we had up to 5 bottle of beer a day and had to take a ‘salt’ tablet, the size of an Alka Seltzer. The three things we’re now told kill us, , having been shown how to handle these poisons, I’m in my seventies. Is the answer to bring back National Service ?
My how times have changed. I'm not old enough the remember Pre-Decimalisation.
"... 2shillings and three pence (10p).."
Surely, 1 bob is 5p, therefore, shouldn't that be 11.25p.
National Service - never did me any harm!
What do I care if people are woken up all night. Lets not even discuss it on here, thats moaning. You can seek a cure if you have the money. If there is a problem the answer is more cops, more courts, more punishments. Whatever it takes so long as I can go on boozing until 3 in the morning.
Hello idiot. the chavs and trouble makers would still be out and about at 3 am cheap booze from other sources, spliffs etc. shut the club down fine and dandy with me I dont use it, ohh hang on thats selffish. labour bought in extended licencing laws allowed people to grow up in a benefit ridden society not the conservatives. Labour also have caused this massive debt crisis, so they are responsible for the cuts.
Also the club and surrounding premises have been open for yrs I remember drinking late there over 25 yrs ago. I do not condone vandalism and violence, but dont punnish the majority for the few, deal with them brutally if required.
And dont please associate me with that middle left pile of CCCC which is now called the conservative party.
Some years ago when the ‘pub/clubbers’ parked outside our house, and noisily returned between one and three in the morning I called the police because they were still drinking and playing their stereos in their cars, but more seriously they were in no fit state to drive.
However, after about half an hour they got into their vehicles and left, my wife and I went back to bed only to woken up an hour later by a police officer following up on our complaint some two hours earlier.
After this incident I would go out to the clubbers and advise them that I had earlier taken their registration numbers and if they drove their cars I would call the police. They left and returned next day to collect their cars…. They don’t park here anymore!
Never mind the '50s, I remember when Canute and his house carls used to drink at the club. The local boys were not too smart in those days and always fell for it when he said he could turn the tide. Eventually they twigged that one of his mates had a tide table so the next weekend they managed to swap it for a dud copy. No printing in those days of course so they got a priest to copy it out with high and low reversed. We all bet a few more groats than usual and off he went, just in time for the tide to come in. Wonderful, and as they say the rest is history. Course there was not much to do in Swanage then.
Well I hope they get a later licence and that few other places could get some. Nothing more enoying than having to drive miles to get something to eat.
Its not unknown to have the munchies after enjoying whats on offer late at night in Swanage but its best to have the presence of mind to stock up earlier in the day and head home for something tasty when the pangs strike,
"Nothing more enoying (sic) than having to drive miles to get something to eat."
Being constantly woken by the noise coming from the street at three in the morning might be considered a tad more annoying.
Here's a link for you then , http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/NoiseNuisanceAndLitter/DG_10029682
Thanks for that helpful link, although it is not entirely relevant since PDC is already aware of the problem. I have also objected to the licensing officer in respect of the Rainbow Kebab application and meetings are on-going about the noise and other problems in Lower High Street.
It is a pity the well behaved late drinkers cannot persuade the lively element to go home quietly but having seen some of the cctv footage I can understand their reluctance to intervene.
What if as a condition of being served when patrons’ arrive at a bar/pub for the night they provide the counter part of their parking receipt, with their vehicle registration number on it and how many people are in their party. This would mean their vehicles are in an area where the police can monitor them, as well as stop/reduce the covert parking in residential areas around the High Street. Furthermore it would generate STC with some revenue to set against the cost of cleaning up after them.
The problem is people walking/staggering off home rather than driving. What do you mean by "covert parking"? It is perfectly above board to park in a street you do not live in.
Hey its great to see people enjoying themselves in the bars and pubs in the lower high street. But when you get pissed up can you stop regurgitating the food & drink you've been consuming till the early hours, in residents doorways, stop pissing in the alleyways and on peoples property, do your drug dealing outside your own home, and when you've had your fill instead of pursuing the aggressive drunken noisy loitering till almost dawn go carry on your animal like revolting behaviour on your own doorstep!!
Re 0957 ~ 'covert parking' definition;
Parking in a residential location, (i) knowing you intend to return for your vehicle circa ooo1 to 0330hours and disturb the peace because of your rowdy drunken state.
(ii) That you plan to leave the area from your 'covert parking location' to avoid the High Street and police patrols, (which I appreciate are as rare as hens teeth)coming onto the High Street or crossing it into Church Hill and away.
"the High Street and police patrols, (which I appreciate are as rare as hens teeth)"
On the contrary on the cctv footage I have seen the police are coming and going all the time when bar se7en empties.
And that's why we pay for them to do that! It's a service and they have been doing it since I remember when the club had a upstairs floor;)
*note to self not to show my age again *
That would be when Princess Victoria's nanny was upstairs in the club most evenings having a pink gin or three with any visiting admirals while the gel chased the local boys downstairs.
The police vehicle outside the Mowlem most days should be supplemented by a Prisoner Transportation Vehicle throughout the night so that the drunks can be detained therein.
The Licensees all claim there is not a problem in the Lower High Street so let all the various private CCTVs’ be accessible on the Internet, ‘Swanage Night Life Webcam?
"The Licensees all claim there is not a problem in the Lower High Street"
In which case there can't be any drunks as the licensees are duty bound not to let anyone in if they are already drunk or to let them get drunk on the premises and we all know that Swanage licensees would not do anything they shouldn't. Alternatively we are looking at a local example of the Murdoch defence. "I had no idea this was going on a few yards from my bar". Now which is most plausible I wonder.
hundreds of riotous drunks?
Hundreds?
Hundreds?
Seriously?
Get a grip.
I'm in the town most weekends, and I can usually count the number of drunks that could be considered riotous on one hand.
So again, get a grip mate.
It is a lovely idea isn't it. Hundreds or riotous drunks. A sort of cross between Dickens and the Keystone Cops. As I pointed out some posts ago, unless Bar Se7en was built on the same principal as the Tardis these simply is not room for them, however, you should never let the facts interfere with a good rant.
I like the point "you should not let the facts get in the way of a good rant" another point is, one that I have witnessed as have many others some of the noise and disturbance is caused by youths who are not older enough to drink, they have got hold of beer from other sources and stay out all hours of the night. but as the poster says who wants facts, when your on a witch hunt all are guilty.
Not exactly. For the problem to be kids denied access to the bars you would need to explain why they choose to walk up the High Street at precisely the same time as these places close.
The rampage in December was lads of about 19 who had been in Bar Se7en. They admitted this to the police, claiming they were feeling sober until they took a few lungfuls of night air after which they could remember nothing. Draw your own conclusions.
RE:-
David Furmage said...
Can't remember the last time seeing a shop window boarded up in town. Actually I can when the purbeck shut down:)
17/7/11 3:24 PM
Okay David go down an take a look at The High Street Cafe'~All day Breakfast. Their large front window was stove in lastnight/ morning, recorded on CCTV by an adult male (drunk) hitting it with his head! Up go the property insurances for the Lower Hight Street.
It happened just before 2am. Did any of you happen to see the incident and are you helping the police? The same cafe had another window broken a few weeks ago. Its hardly surprising that High Street residents are objecting to the Rainbow opening later.
Surely the person who originally posted has got this all wrong.
Why complain about the kebab shop getting an extended license to sell food? They are only making the most of an opportunity to sell food to piss-heads at 3am when the latest bar shuts in town.
If drunks are causing you a problem (which you, and others are certainly over exaggerating. Never happened in your day etc etc) then appeal against the pubs license to sell alcohol so late.
And as for hundreds of riotous drunks, as I said before, get a grip. Seriously.
"then appeal against the pubs license to sell alcohol so late."
If we have to we will do that as well. I don't know why the focus is on "drunks" as if this was some separate species. Whether they are drunk or sober a group of people standing around talking at 2 or 3 in the morning in the street is going to wake people up. If the Rainbow is open and selling them food the noise problem will be made worse.
"Never happened in your day etc etc)"
Actually the pubs were a lot busier and we used to sit around in the Shades watching the bike boys throw beer over each other.
This is something of a Gin Lane and Beer Street question. What has changed is that beer in pubs is a great deal dearer and spirits from supermarkets and off-licenses a good deal cheaper. Instead of going to the pub and having a few pints as we did the kids drink a good deal at home and top up in the bars. Paradoxically perhaps an answer would be cheaper beer in pubs where there is at least some rudiment of control over behaviour.
So I saw the window , yep that is bad but you can't blame
the kebab shop ( who sell food )for one certain person being an idiot. Plus am I right in saying that ever pub has a late liscence to stay open till whenever they like? Then maybe they should do this. Ok hear us out on this on! Pubs stay open as late as possible that way people go out later and don't abuse the drink , works well abroad so why not try it here. Also get rid of pints and serve beer in half litre glasses. I for one struggle to drink pints now days and plus you don't get much change when buying a round. Or we have every pub calling time at 11pm then everyone gets put out onto the streets. Also raise the drinking age to 21:)
If we reverted to the old system where the pubs & clubs turned out at a specific time. Then the police could manage the situation and arrest intoxicated people who could potentially cause a breach of the peace.
"but you can't blame the kebab shop ( who sell food )for one certain person being an idiot."
You have the wrong end of the stick. If things closed at, for instance, 12 there would be nothing keeping people in the lower High Street and the folk who live there would get a decent nights sleep. Simple. Cause and effect.
Since it is illegal for publicans to permit their customers to get drunk this would not arise if they did their job properly. I notice that none of those who seek to defend their liberty to drink late have commented on people who are plastered still getting served. Perhaps if they were to point out to the management that they would like to go on patronising the establishment and would appreciate it if they did not endanger their licence we could make some progress.
So if I am right you want 6 watering holes all to shut at 12 then turf them all out onto the streets. Very wise idea not! If police cannot contained folk coming out of one place how are they going to manage to contain folk coming out of 6 places? The 6 being , peveril , bar 7 , horse , Snackbar and ship. It's not joined up writing you know!
Also a friend of mine who lives above the club says if the kebab shop was to open till 3 , why not have security staff on the door as an added measure. Plus he for one does not mind hearing the noise of people having fun and spending money in town:)
Also can someone tell me where all the CCTV 's are and are they council ones?
Re 5:01 Also get rid of pints and serve beer in half litre glasses. I for one struggle to drink pints now days and plus you don't get much change when buying a round.
David - half a litre is 9/10ths of a pint, change the measure and for sure the bars will charge you the same as for a pint, ie overcharged by about 10%.
A mystery to me, and one that should theoretically be easily solved by police and landlords - I believe it is an offence 1) to be drunk in a public place 2) to serve a drunk 3) to urinate in a public place. A few weeks of zero tolerance on those matters may make a difference.
Don't hold your breath though.
RE:-
"Also can someone tell me where all the CCTV 's are and are they council ones?
24/7/11 8:50 PM"
You only have to look along the Lower High Street.
From memory I can recall about a dozen private/commercial ones plus a couple police/council ones which are linked by microwave to the Police Station via the Town Hall. There are a score of others around the town.
Oh I forgot there is one inside the ‘Snack Bar’ looking across the bar towards out to the High Street showing the customers, (and who they are with).
Go to website http://www.snackbarswanage.co.uk/ and click ‘WEBCAM’
I understand that Rainbow Kebab has decided to withdraw the application to extend their opening hours, but they are still applying for the sale of alcohol to home delivery orders. This is the list of conditions that the applicant proposes to include on their premises licence should it be granted.
OFF SALE RELATED CONDITIONS
1) Alcohol sales in relation to phone and internet orders to be made with substantial
food orders only, alcohol proportionate to food orders,(ie not one portion of chips to
24 cans of lager) and shall be responsibility and at the discretion of the D.P.S.
2)To be delivered to a specific home residential address and not to a road or street
corner etc,
3) All customers placing an alcohol order for home delivery, either by telephone or
other means, shall be informed that they must be 18 years of age or over to
purchase alcohol and that the form of identification that the customer stated when
ordering will be requested on delivery.
4) The delivery person shall request that form of identification on every delivery
made and the l.D. produced noted on a docket that shall be signed by the deliverer
to that effect. The deliverer shall then return the docket to the manager of the store
from where he or she emanated. Records should be made available to an
enforcement Officer on request.
5) A refusals register for home delivery and shall include details of alcohol sales
refused and the reason for refusal. The refusals register should be made available
to an enforcement officer on request.
6) Remote age restricted sales to be monitored and authorised by the duty
manager, a personal licence holder, or persons who are SWERCOT trained, when
at the time the duty manager in not available.
7) Delivery persons to be aged 18 years of age or over.
8) The premises shall adopt the Challenge 25 policy with regard to home deliveries,
where the only acceptable proof of age will be Pass approved lD, Passport or Photo
Driving Licence.
Unless you want a complete Police State that's very reasonable - a word Solicitors love.
Then the police could manage the situation and arrest intoxicated people who could potentially cause a breach of the peace.
I don't think you can arrest people for having the potential to breach the piece. This isn't the Tom Cruise film 'Minority Report'
You can hardly blame the police for being reluctant to make arrests. Would you want a loud and abusive drunk in the back of your car, in all probability swearing, shouting, vomiting, wetting themselves and trying to hide their drugs? And thats just the girls.
Context.
http://www.upmystreet.com/local/crime-in-swanage.html
Most forces use similar recording techniques - see how calm and safe Purbeck is - unless you're a Woman.
I heard of a new community police officer who decided to clean up the drunks, so staked out the local pub before closing time. Sure enough at about closing a guy staggered out fell up against a car but his key didn’t fit so he staggered to the next car and got in. The windscreen wipers, hazard lights etc all went on and off and finally the engine started and he found a gear and started for home. The constable pulled him over and breathalysed him, but it showed green, the officer said I don’t understand you’re obviously drunk, what’s going on ? The guy replied having noted all his mates had left the pub car park; ‘I’m the decoy for tonight !
From the Orignial Poster.
I don't know why some posters are hell bent on pretending the problem does not exist or is trivial.
http://www.upmystreet.com/local/crime-in-swanage.html shows the whole of Purbeck and is not broken down more locally. However, http://www.police.uk/crime/?q=Swanage,%20Dorset%20BH19%202LP,%20UK#crimetypes shows figures for Swanage alone including 34 recorded instances of antisocial behaviour and 6 of violent crime in June, 38 and 7 in May, 39 and 3 in April.
I don't know why some posters are hell bent on pretending the problem does not exist or is trivial
I think what upsets people is the fact that residents of the lower high st. blame all drinkers/revellers who use the pubs/clubs in that area, they then try to makeout that these pubs/clubs have sprung up in the last few yrs ( untrue as the locals can tell you... sorry to use the word locals I know it upsets some people im sure I will be flamed for that word) that those of us that do use it dont want anything done, well its not true I think punishments should be handed out and stiff ones at that, but in light of recent cutbacks that is very unlikely.
One final point. the labour govt: introdced relaxed licencing laws not this govt: so go blame jim knight and his crew.
It appears that the police are just unable to control the problem due to lack of funds resulting in them having insufficient resources for all the areas in Dorset where this is a problem. That being the case, the answer is for everyone experiencing problems to lobby their MP and parliament for a change to the law. The extension to drinking hours has just not worked very well in the UK as instead of drinking responsibly there are large numbers of people who drink to excess and then cause a nuisance to the community. This is not just a Swanage or Dorset problem. Visit almost any town centre on a Friday or Saturday and you will see the same mess going on. Some places have been turned into no-go areas.
"I think what upsets people is the fact that residents of the lower high st. blame all drinkers/revellers who use the pubs/clubs in that area, they then try to makeout that these pubs/clubs have sprung up in the last few yrs"
That is totally untrue. Are you in the habit of supporting your arguments with lies or do you have some sort of cognitive problem? Do please try to understand what people are saying so that you can argue with that rather than some fantasized version.
A proportion of those in the lower High Street in the small hours are, to use a time honoured phrase, "drunk and disorderly" but none of the residents claims that everybody present is. It is down to the innocent majority to impress on the bar staff and management that their continued enjoyment of late night drinking is not unrelated to the latter not sending people out drunk. Why do you pretend this has nothing to do with you? Show some concern for others instead of bitching.
If you don't like guilt by association don't associate yourself with the guilty. Some bright spark suggested residents should move to get away from the noise and violence. Equally the innocent drinkers can move to other towns and pursue their nocturnal habits there so they are not lumped in with the idiots.
That is totally untrue. Are you in the habit of supporting your arguments with lies or do you have some sort of cognitive problem? Do please try to understand what people are saying so that you can argue with that rather than some fantasized version.
Im affraid it is you that is incorrect I have witnessed peoples hatred for all drinkers in the lower high st I have witnessed personally residents wanting the pubs and clubs shut early blaming all who drink as demons. I have spoken to and been abused by certain residents who think that the lower high st should be shut after 10 pm at night and YES I have been privy to many meetings.................... vadalism /urination on the st etc etc is a crime and should be dealt with. but many do blame all drinkers that is a fact, plain and simple. In a conversation I was having I mentioned that I had had a few beers in a certain pub, someone who overheard said "ohh your one of those rowdy drunks are you" how dare thay make that assumption but they did thats why I make these comments. Posters on here have only named bar 7 for the problems as I have said put your money where your very large mouth is get a licence review get it closed down "simples" I have over the last couple of years called the police about this sort of behaviour and gone to court have you ? I was threated etc etc but had the balls to go to court I now dont bother due to the pathetic legal system we have. I look forward to you and the other residents putting in a licence review for the club. good luck!
I have no idea what opinions have been expressed to you over this matter. It may well be that the general view in Swanage is that there should be no late opening but this is not one I share. All I was seeking to do was make it clear that those currently concerned about this problem are not suggesting that everything should close at 10 or anything like that. All they ask for is that those running bars and clubs keep within the terms of their licenses and the law and do not permit this obnoxious minority of their customers to get drunk. Why there should be anything remotely controversial about suggesting that Swanage boozers operate within the law I do not know.
It really isn't as big a problem as many of you are making out.
I agree, I go out in town four nights a week and have only had five fights since new years eve, not even one a month. And I only ever wee behind bins or on a cars back passenger side tyre which I believe is legal due to some quirky law.
"I only ever wee behind bins or on a cars back passenger side tyre which I believe is legal"
Only if you are the driver and do not let go of the reigns.
Give us your address and I will try to arrange for a group of 40 or 50 to gather under your bedroom window from midnight to three in the morning every weekend to discourse on matters philosophical. Philosophical discussions in Swanage are known to become heated so have a first aid kit handy.
PS. mark any plants in nearby gardens that would benefit from a dowsing.
Personally I think you should all put your money where you mouths are and put your names to your posts . Cos the way I see it you posts means nothing without standing up for what you say and putting your name on it. Just a thought ;)
Yes, it would be interesting to know the identities of these folk who think noise and anti-social behavior are fine so long as they happen to other people.
Give us your address and I will try to arrange for a group of 40 or 50 to gather under your bedroom window from midnight to three in the morning every weekend to discourse on matters philosophical. Philosophical discussions in Swanage are known to become heated so have a first aid kit handy.
You can gather under my bedroom window between midnight and 3 at weekends and make as much noise as you like,I won't be home.
I live in a residential road close to the lower High Street. I grew up in Dorset but have also lived in Sheffield and London. When in London I lived over restaurants and bars but never experienced the problems I have experienced living in Swanage.
In the three and a half year I've lived at this address I have had to ring the police many times about drug dealing, vandalism,loud and agressive behaviour on the streets outside my house. I have even had to bang on the living window at 3 men dealing drugs in my drive way leaning against the bonnet of my car.Their response was to pull their trousers down.
I haven't even bothered to complain about the broken glass, the vomit, the bins that are regularly pulled over, the fighting and the people who use my garden as as toilet (my neighbour found someone defecating on her door step one night) and to smash bottles and leave their rubbish.
Already this year some young men attempted to smash my patio windows with a rock after I saw them snorting drugs on Sentry Rd( a common activity in the area). I've had the rear wind screen wiper wrenched off the back of my car and the other week some lads took a rake from my garden, snapped the head off it and used the wooden pole to threaten people outside one of the bars on the High Street (this was at 2am). - Yes all reported to the police.
Swanage completely changes character after 11pm at the weekends. It is not family friendly at all and becomes a rowdy and hostile place. People are already drunk by 11pm and by 3am they are completely out of their heads and capable of all sorts of behaviour. I frequently lie in my bed frightened at night.
I've lost all patience and it is now my opinion that most of the pubs are licensed too late and that the club should never have been allowed a license to 3am (I have heard it has actually been open to 4 or 5am). It takes at least an hour for drunken people to disperse and so we are denied sleep until gone 4am.
If there is not funding for adequate policing
throughout the night the only option is to rein in the opening hours.
louise
That just about sums it up. What is annoying is all those people who trivialise and belittle anyone who wants to be able to live a normal life in this part of the town centre, either claiming there are no problems, that the problems are tiny or that they form an acceptable part of life here, a price worth paying for being able to drink until three in the morning.
The fact is that having a number, even a small number of people, who habitually drink themselves into a state of amnesia and criminal dis-inhibition before lurching homeward is unacceptable and looking to the police to turn up like a set of school prefects intervening in the playground is no answer. The solution lies with the management of the establishments these people have been in who need to accept that the wild west ended a long time ago.
...first incident of the night - blokes outside making a lot of noise have just smashed a large terracotta pot of plants at the top of Burt's Place. Not mine I think. Take a look if you like ...
late and that the club should never have been allowed a license to 3am (I have heard it has actually been open to 4 or 5am).
herein lies the problem, a year or so ago the club was due for a licence review, what happened ??? well some string were pulled smooth talking promises etc etc ergo its still open.
Well louise get together download the paper work from PDC website an d get a reveiew I dealt with a problem like that, but you must be 100% accurate in your statements.
I am one on here who says, and I still stand by it that it is a few who spoil it for the majority.
If 300 people drink in the lower high st and 10% are trouble thats 35 people. another think is write to pub watch get them to ban these people, unfortuently most of pub watch officials have pubs/clubs in the lower high st. AS the say in the USA "Do the math".
Good luck. BUt there are options open to you but YOU have to take them.
PS if you do you must be prepared to go to court.
Oh dear, this is madness. I well remember the lower high st at weekends when I was a teenager. Some late drinking at the club and some noise - yes, but not the extremes of behaviour mentioned here about which some people are obviously proud. The late hours are clearly being abused and those residents who are suffering need to go to the courts and have things changed.
Louise, would putting a PIR activated light outside your property be any good? I doubt that these people want light shining on them. They are quite cheap but you have the cost of installation. Have you considered cctv? A four camera plus recorder system is £300-400.
There is no argument that this is caused by a small number of people. Unfortunately Swanage as a whole seems to accept their culture of drunken petty criminality. You can see from some of the postings on here that there is a school of thought that holds that if money is being made any undesirable side effects should be ignored.
I wonder if the drug dealers have moved from other locations, rumour had it they were in the lane behind the Parade at one time. CCTV was installed there I believe and may have displaced the activity.
As they say, an ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure. However many police show up at closing time those under the various influences are not suddenly rendered sober by the sight of a uniform. Better management of the licensed premises is the answer if it can be achieved.
"but you must be 100% accurate in your statements":
"If 300 people drink in the lower high st and 10% are trouble thats 35 people"
What the club needs is a full time doorman (like Harry Jones or Pete Emmery used to be). They got to know the customers and if they caused trouble or noise on the way home they didn't get in again for a while.
Also the change you have missed is that the now bar7even used to be a members club. You had to join and pay a fee to drink after 11.30, and bad behavior resulted in a withdrawal of membership.
Drugs have been around in Swanage for years and quite a few people use them recreationally without causing any problems at all. It's the kids today who are the problem as some of them have not been taught any respect for other people or property.
Returning to Bar7seven, walking passed during the evening it seems to be the quietest, sorry least busy, pub in the lower High Street. Perhaps the management can see the writing on the wall and just don't care.
Isn't it just the time of year? First week in September and it will be all over? Personally I would scrap regatta week and have family activities with fire works every week for eight weeks July to September. If Swanage gained a reputation as a sedate upmarket resort then trouble makers would not be attracted or tolerated.
They live here. It is mainly brainless local youth who are the problem. It is not limited to the summer at all. Not only is the notion of being responsible for their actions alien to them it is to their parents as well.
Swanage Resident/Louise. Why not start with the Royal Victoria Apartments residents association? Presumably they hold the freehold of the building and could put pressure on the tenants of bar7even or back you up with PDC. Also why not approach the woman who runs the thatch restaurant opposite, who I am told owns the lease on the bar and collects the rent from the management there.
The freehold is not owned by the Royal Victoria Apartments. I understand it is owned by the owner of the establishment opposite.
Stop blaming the 'yoof' only. I see plenty of people 35+ acting the pest and causing trouble at weekends.
But mk, blame the young people as it fits your agenda.
Thats possible but the only people I have details on were the 19 year olds who caused damage last December. Generally the lads who do this sort of thing grow up somewhat in their 20s. If you can identify older trouble makers do please tell us.
Membership to the club is the key. Well said that person who mentioned this and am I correct that having a membership got you in just 2 guests? And doorman back then had respect and gave you respect if you did not act an idiot. Les , Taffy , Martin , Aaron , Bruce , Harry , Stan were doorman you knew really well and run a great club. Pete on the desk top bloke who never forgot a thing:)
If you can identify older trouble makers do please tell us.
I can't identify them because I don't know who they are.
I also don't live in the town centre, behave amicably when drunk and can handle my beer, so the problem isn't an issue for me.
I was just saying that there are just as many 'adults' as teenagers causing trouble, getting drunk and fighting, pissing in streets and being loud.
But some in this town have a very 'anti-youth' agenda.
I was just saying that there are just as many 'adults' as teenagers causing trouble, getting drunk and fighting, pissing in streets and being loud.
I would say 80% of the trouble is caused by those under 25, what do you call youth? under 18? they dear friend are the aprentice trouble makers. Mr& Mrs "chavvy Mcstab" are breeding those for future trouble. I dont know if any of you watch these fly on the wall doco things look how lack of respect and a poor cps/law is no deterent.
Have to agree most of the trouble is from the under 25's and it's not just a select few. They now come in gangs. If you start on one or even look at them the wrong way next you know they are waiting outside of pubs or clubs like a pack of hyenas ( sp ) ready to pounce . Raise the drinking age to over 21. And I love the mr and mrs mcstab ( Chav ) bringing up there kids in the ranks . So true:)
Kids these days just don't have any respect , and it's mainly because all kind of discipline is gone out the window:(
Chavvy McStab?
When was the last time anyone was stabbed in Swanage? How often does it happen.
Go on, admit it, you all hate young people. They are all evil.
As for the person using documentaries as proof. Obviously they will find what they are looking for, badly behaved, drunk youths, or else they'd have a crap tv show.
And none have been filmed in Swanage to my knowledge.
And Mr Furmage, why are you 'starting on one' in the first place?
Mr Furmage must look back on the innocent ages of mods, rockers, greasers, teddy boys, hell's angels and punks with nostalgia and wonderment at the respect they showed.
Go on, admit it, you all hate young people. They are all evil.
Yeah your right caught us all out jeesh been found out at last. Pr3t.
thats why I have 3 children and numerous grandkids is it?
RESPECT thats all anyone is after, and you wont find it in a lot of the kids in swanage (or other areas) arroggant drug using lazy knife carrying, drunk uneducated sex mad and baby producing scum. thats what a lot of kids are today.
I think a lot will agree perhaps not in public tho.
Alot of kids aren't that, especially in Swanage.
What a prat.
Some are, a minority. Plenty of young people, the majority, around here are perfectly normal.
But again, that wouldn't fit your agenda.
SWANAGE FOR 60+ and over only.
No problem where I live.
If unsociable behaviour occurs, call the police. Two cruisers will turn up within one minute. More if needed.
If the miscreant haven't buggered off like the cowards they are (and the Swanage hard core miscreants are pathetic) they will have four burly police officers with drawn Glocks at their throats, if need be ...while they explain what they are up to.
Usually that means a trip to the county lockup for the night, to face the magistrate in the morning.
After a full body cavity search; no warrant needed.
Before you poo-poo this, this sort of no-nonsense policing is how things used to work in the UK before it got so soft that is cannot even guarantee honest folk a good night's sleep.
People respect laws when they are enforced. Go on, debunk that.
How is the weather in Pyongyang?
Fine. How is the weather in Swanage??
Clement.
"this sort of no-nonsense policing is how things used to work in the UK before it got so soft that is cannot even guarantee honest folk a good night's sleep."
When might that have been? This is more golden age nonsense.
I am still struggling for an answer. It cannot have been in Queen Victoria's reign when the first policeman appointed in Swanage was nearly beaten to death by the locals who resented this dangeropus innovation. That was of course a time when theatre critics carried revolvers when going to review shows in the East End as the ability of the police there to ensure law and order was a little lacking. Perhaps it was only a few decades ago when domestic violence was ignored more or less completely and rape was generally regarded as the fault of the victim.
This is boring now.
If it's a problem for you I suggest you do something more pro-active than whinging on the internet.
Nobody is forcing you to read it.
Yes they are.
Starting on one? Hum news to me. I hardly go out at night , got my family to look after. Plus drinking now days needs a hefty bank balance!
You have incredibly biased, conservative views. Surely if you are doing a blog about Swanage it should be neutral rather than you trying to force your own opinions on to others. If you do not like it,move. Swanage does not have a drink problem, this is simply small town conservative thinking where you can not adjust to the leisurely activities of others. If you want to see drink problems go to Bournemouth. Don't be so petty as to oppose a licence which in all honesty will not affect you.
Even the Son of Swanage Mayor is a drugged up goon.
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