Monday, November 28, 2011
High Street troubles: meeting Tues 29 Nov
There is a PACT (Police and Community working Together) at 6pm, at Swanage Town Hall tomorrow, Tuesday 29th November. I don't know the full scope of the agenda, but gather that the problems of violence, noise and anti-social behaviour in the High Street is on the agenda. Meeting is open to the public.
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THIS WAS MY POST UNDER THE HEADING "LOCALISM BILL" However the last sentence of my posting has been 'picked up' by the Post Master to promote tomorrows meeting:-
LOCALISM BILL is I understand to enable ‘Local Communities’ to represent the issues which affect the Community within which they reside. Swanage had a perfectly good and active ‘SWANAGE RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION’ which fell by the wayside because of lack of ‘community support’.
I know I was on the committee and as such sat on the Task Group to put issues which were worrying the Local Community so as to liaise with those who also made up the Task Group, Local Government, Cliff Rescue, RNLI, Fire and importantly POLICE.
On behalf of residents I would raise various current problems, now for instance it would be concern over the multiple fights and damage last weekend, (Sunday 27th NOV. 0100~0200 hours) in the lower High Street from those leaving the clubs. Although the police were there in good numbers, six or eight they were no match for the drunks. Where is and what happened to the CCTV taken at that time, not only in the lower High Street but the trail of damage and disturbance of residents as the drunks make their way home from the High Street.
I understand there is a meeting at the Town hall tomorrow Tuesday 29th where residents can table their concerns.
Rob Owen.
Used to be that if a publican ran a rowdy house, it lost its license.
These days, it is all about money. The police are not paid to spend the bulk of their time refereeing pub brawls.
Two warnings to a publican - then pull the license.
If it happens in the street, and not in the pub/liscenced premises, how can they publican be blamed?
He has no control over someones behaviour off his premises, and if they behave on it he has no need to have them removed/dealt with by police.
The problem appears to be in the street, not in the pubs.
Yes, indeed, the Pontious Pilate defence, "nothing to do with me!" has been the first line of defence from those running the drinking establishments concerned while also claiming that the disorder is merely coincidental and not caused by their customers.
Well, then, a publican has no responsibility for an inebriated patron once he/she leaves the premises, and goes on the pavement or (worse yet) gets into a car and drives?
Really? Just make money and no responsibility?
In other countries, if a patron leaves a pub/bat inebriated, the licensee can be sued for any aftermath - especially car accidents.
I am not sure that is not the case here yet, but seeing how the UK follows trends (and this one may be coming via civil court judgments and insurance companies before legislation catches up) then it will come here.
Bournemouth police are increasingly shutting down pubs and clubs. No reason why ours cannot do the same.
Time for some stiff warnings, methinks.
On your reasoning, if I came to your house for a party, at which you laid on a substantial amount of booze and I later, without your knowledge and out of your control went for a drive or got into a scrap you would be partially liable.
A license holder has a responsibility for drinkers in his/her establishment, and they are duty bound to make sure patrons aren't took drunk, aren't served when they are too drunk and sent on their way.
How can you hold the accountable for something they can't control off their premises.
In other countries, if a patron leaves a pub/bat inebriated, the licensee can be sued for any aftermath - especially car accidents.
In some countries they stone adulterers and cut the hands off thieves.
In some countries women can't vote, be educated or have a job.
Just because someone else does it doesn't make it right.
Well if someone causes trouble outside a licenced premises the licensee can ban them from their pubs. There must be some responsibilty taken.
The licence holder must ensure people don't get so drunk they just go outside and cause trouble. Let's not make excuses for people making money out of drunkards.
You can't go into a Wetherspoons and get so drunk you cause trouble outside but you can in some pubs in Swanage. The police must know who the publican offenders are - why not do something about it? Closer em down?
I would be interested to hear the police response.
so what happened at the meeting?
Trust me, you can go into a weatherspoons, get drunk and cause trouble.
What an odd example.
I thought I might learn something here about the problems and the meeting, but there just seem to be a couple of regulars propping up the bar, argueing round in circles...
OK. There must have been about 40 people present, including about 6 police (among them Insp Baker). All opinions were raised; including those complaining about damage to premises, people saying it's disgraceful their granddaughter looked out of the window and saw police rolling on the ground to arrest people, business owners saying how much they do to monitor/stop drunks. It's certainly acknowledged to be a serious issue, with perhaps no easy fix. The importance of the so-called 'night-time economy' to Swanage was offset by claims about the damage to the reputation of Swanage as a safe, family-friendly, town. The police assured everyone (and were convincing) that they are doing everything they can to sort this out. Watch this space.
Yes, but no mention of the one single thing that would sort this out once and for all. Change the licensing hours, so places have to close earlier, say at 12 or 1. Simples, really. If there's nowhere to go, people will go home. It's not rocket science, is it?
The police said, a number of times, that if anyone wishes to make any comments about pubs, clubs or licensing arrangments, that the Purbeck District Council actively invites comments: clarestratford@purbeck-dc-gov.uk (Tek 557220)
"Change the licensing hours, so places have to close earlier,"
Unfortunately the local community lacks the power to do this. Would you like to write to our MP, Richard Drax, to ask him to ask the government to do this. The more of us contact him the better.
That's complete nonsense. PDC can very, very, easily change the licensing hours. On what basis do you claim it can't be done?
That's complete nonsense. PDC can very, very, easily change the licensing hours. On what basis do you claim it can't be done?
You are right the can ask for a change but the words very very easily are misleading they just cant say ohh we are going to change them from next monday it takes a time to do.
Sorry, I thought the remark referred to pub opening hours in general rather than just Bar7. A member of the licensing board, or whatever it calls itself, came to a PACT meeting and emphasised the difficulty of withdrawing a license. It is not something that can be done on the whim of an official body but is closer to a judicial process.
Yes, someone SAID it wasn't easy (though they weren't from the licensing board), but perhaps they had an interest in keeping things as they are. I believe the law now is meant to make it quite straightforward to change licensing arrangements... maybe it's who you know that matters, and how you shake hands. Where there's a will there's a way.
Yes, someone SAID it wasn't easy (though they weren't from the licensing board), but perhaps they had an interest in keeping things as they are. I believe the law now is meant to make it quite straightforward to change licensing arrangements... maybe it's who you know that matters, and how you shake hands. Where there's a will there's a way.
Im sure your coment was not meant to suggest something dodgy goes on? but in fairness the process cannot be easy otherwise pubs/clubs would close on the whim of a lying spitefull neighbour, and im sure there are none of those in swanage .......or are there ?
Just shut the pubs all together , that's the feel off things I get here:( , what needs to be done is come down harder on the owners off pubs and the peoPle who cause the trouble bar them all together from the pubs and maybe bar them from coming into town full stop. Shutting all pubs at 11pm would be a silly idea. All those drunks coming out of pubs at same time , a recipe for trouble.
Exactly what Mr Furmage says.
Those wanting all pubs to close at the same time are spouting uneducated nonsense.
If all the pubs kick out at an earlier time, say midnight, two things will happen.
1. Everyone will go out earlier, say 7pm rather than 9pm, thus getting just as drunk.
2. You would be 'releasing' all these people from all pubs at the same time, in a small area, meaning more chance of trouble and harder for police to police.
Now if say you have three pubs closing at three different times, say 12pm, 1pm and 3pm then people will go home at different times.
Granted some may stumble from one establishment to the other, but many won't, either because they aren't allowed in, or they have no money, or they don't want too.
Less people going home at the same time with staggered closing times. simples.
Although I don't doubt there's a problem, it's nowhere near as bad as what some of you are making out.
Im 25, go out every other weekend in Swanage, I have never seen anyone rolling on the floor with police, vandalising anything and if there is any trouble with anyone in one of the pubs they are swiftly removed. There are rarely any fights.
Most places will try and move people on from standing outside making noise after closing.
Granted some of the drunks can be a bit loud and shouty.
“Swanage has a vibrant economy of which the night time establishments play a vital part" says Police.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cw56a78
From the Swanage Safer Neighbourhood Team (Police)
14/12/2011
Dear Residents of Swanage,
Following responses from the public about criminal damage, anti-social behaviour and underage drinking, the police have taken a considered approach and have been strategically targeting specific areas.
Over the last five months, we have issued a number of Section 27 notices, which ensure an individual causing anti-social behaviour is removed from the area for up to 24 hours. We have also made several arrests relating to criminal damage and anti-social behaviour in the town centre.
More recently, we have targeted under age drinking and removed alcohol from people who are under the age of 18 years. We have been informing the parents of their child’s behaviour and are monitoring those who continue to act in an anti-social manner.
Please ensure that you are aware of where your children are, who they are with and what they have been doing.
We need help from all residents to keep our town safe and free from anti-social behaviour. Please report all incidents when they happen by calling 101 for non emergencies or 999 if a life is in danger or a crime is in progress. This provides the police with the best opportunity for detecting and investigating acts of crime and disorder.
Since the summer months the police have been striving to increase police visibility in the town centre. This has an impact on any potential crimes being committed and helps to combat the fear of crime. We will not tolerate those who commit crime or act in an anti-social manner. We will arrest those who damage property and we will use the powers we have to remove people from the town.
Much of Swanage town centre is under a designated public place order (DPPO). This means that the police can request that you stop drinking in a designated public place and surrender any alcohol in your possession. Failure to do so could result in you being arrested.
With all the above in mind we would like to thank the residents and business owners of Swanage who have been very supportive of our actions. Swanage is a beautiful seaside town that attracts thousands of visitors all year round. The people of Swanage are good friendly citizens, which is testament to the amount of returning visitors that we get here every year.
Swanage does have a vibrant economy of which the night time establishments are part. After enjoying a night out we do ask that you make your way home quietly and sensibly.
There are lots of people who live in and around the town centre and they are not happy about the minority of people who damage their property and are inconsiderate to other residents of Swanage.
There are CCTV cameras all around the town and we will be looking at these very carefully in the future.
Thank you for all of your good work so far. Lets continue to work together to keep Swanage a safe, friendly and happy place to live and visit.
Swanage Safer Neighbourhood Team
When the Conservatives came to power they promised to call time on 24 hour drinking. Now we need to call time on them to deliver what they have promised.
Robin ,think it's about time we call time on them full stop :)
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