Secondary Update. Parents will not give up !!
Swanage parents fighting for secondary school
7:00pm Monday 1st February 2010
Dorset Echo
This resolution was passed by Swanage Town Council at its meeting on 1st February:
Swanage Town Council deplores the recent decision of Dorset County Council's Cabinet (1) to conduct no consultation with the residents of Swanage on the County Council's intentions towards the future of Secondary school education
in the town; and (2) to carry out no Economic Impact Assessment of the likely economic and social effects of the planned withdrawal of Secondary education from Swanage.
Posted by Anonymous to swanageview at 12:23 AM
Wednesday, February 03, 2010
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167 comments:
Is anyone, on either side of the debate, surprised that the Council would not enter into further public consultation over this issue, or does anyone disagree that this decision was taken most likely a long time ago?
If - and it is a BIG if - the economy was booming, there might be the possibility of striving for a local secondary school in Swanage. The economy is not booming. No matter how one tries to spin the facts, the school age population of Swanage is not on the increase, and may decrease.
Simply put, the government at all levels is unable or unwilling to spend that amount of money on this project at this time.
It is a noble cause; but the immediate challenges outweigh the long-term benefits. (Government reacts to short-term political goals, rarely seeing beyond the next election cycle.) To the supporters: by all means try once more, but should it fail to progress, I respectfully suggest that energies be transferred to improving Purbeck School as it expands, and that concessions be made to ensure that transport and other issues be resolved. I would suggest, as a start, that PDC make a concession that all school children will be transported to and from Wareham for free on buses dedicated for this purpose, as in other countries with similar logistical challenges such as Canada and the US.
If local school development could be paid for by either increasing local property and business rates, or by issuing a bond, then this might be an option, although I am not certain that local ratepayers would want to take on a burden of this size.
I am bemused by Swanage Town Council's formal objection to PDC. If Swanage Town Council wants to live up to its rheteoric, then it could propose means by which the 7.25 million pounds it raised from the sale of Swanage Bay View Holiday Park could be leveraged to assist the building of a new school. It could be offered towards a substantial portion of the building cost (or as surety for a bond issue) of a new secondary school for Swanage; this might tip PDC and the DfE to go ahead with the project. Local support of this nature is a compelling argument for a cause. Can anyone not see this as a most fitting way to invest this windfall in the future of Swanage (for what is a greater investment than in our children?) which, I fear, will be otherwise frittered away over the year?
Even if victory may elude the supporters of a new school, they should be reassured that much good can be salvaged from this. But don't give up! At the same time, do not spend much more time thinking PDC et al will 'magic' the funds out of thin air! Realistic targets achieve realistic goals; dreams remain dreams.
I respectfully suggest that energies be transferred to improving Purbeck School as it expands, and that concessions be made to ensure that transport and other issues be resolved.
The school issue is nothing to do with PDC.
Many Swanage parents would be more keen to put their energies into a local school, parents do not feel engaged with Purbeck School.
Local builders are saying that it would not cost millions to create a secondary school for Swanage.
Transport:
The government have said that each school must become environmentally sustainable by 2020.
All schools are being encouraged to gain their Green Eco School Green Flag by 2012.
Andrew Combes (DCC sustainable transport co-ordinator-School Travel Health Check) is not alone in thinking that we should seriously be doing something about reducing our carbon footprint.
This DCC supported document (STHC) states: Sustainable Schools/Eco-Schools: 'A zero carbon emissions building is no use if everyone drives to it!'
What is the point of this School Travel Health Check and for schools to be awarded with either a red, amber or green rating, if this is not taken seriously. This document provides detail about the way in which each child travels to school. The aim/challenge for each school is to achieve a green rating. The purpose of this document, is to encourage schools to become more environmentally aware ie. reduce Carbon Footprint and for as many children to walk/cycle to school.
'The figures reflect the impact of travelling to school on the health of pupils and the environment'
The document considers the number of calories used by pupils walking each day (Healthy Schools-Child Obesity). It shows the total CO2 emitted by buses and cars each day.
The STHC has been cited as an example of best practice by the Sustainable Development Commission in thier 'Towards a Schools Carbon Management Plan' report, published jointly with DCSF in June 2009.
A Secondary School in Swanage would raise a GREEN FLAG.
This document states that...'leading scientists have shown that we need to move from our current UK annual average of all CO2 emissions of 10 tonnes per person to 1 tonne if we are all to live within the Earth's carrying capacity. We all need to be more aware of the consequences of the travel choices we make..'
Report number 7: ‘Moving to a Lower Carbon Future in Dorset:..'All we need is for parents and central policy makers to value and support the concept of 'A good school locally' (what parents want) and to think about the negative impact unnecessary/excessive 'child miles' can have on children and the environment.’
This report continues with more comments about how important it is for parents to choose a local school.
It would be intersting to look at the results of an Environmental Impact Assessment /Carbon Audit.
Swanage with or without a Secondary School.
It’s good to see that Swanage Town Council is supporting the people of Swanage.
I frequently hear from supporters of Education Swanage that parents do not feel engaged with Purbeck School. Personally I have been happier with Purbeck than Swanage Middle (and know of several parents who feel the same). I receive frequent and accurate reports on my children's progress from Purbeck and on the rare occasion that I have has cause for concern, I have received a swift response.
There will always be some parents unhappy with issues that arise with their children's school, wherever it is. Even if their school is on their doorstep.
STC, PDC, DCC - none of these will provide the funds for this at this time. I agree with the first post on that point.
As far as environmental issues are concerned, won't school buses be more environmentally friendly than dozens of motorcars doing the same job?
The government hasn't placed a legal imperative on schools to be eco-friendly by any date; it is a goal, not law. In its rural areas, Denmark and Sweden both employ school buses as the most sustainable alternative to cars for the school run.
I also agree with 6.16 that Swanage parents I know DO support Purbeck School. We certainly did.
Our children benefited from being educated outside Swanage after their middle school years. They are in their mid 20s now. I asked them what they thought about this debate, and they both said that Purbeck School was a great experience and that they could not imagine being in Swanage for all of their secondary education. I believe the word 'inbred' was used! Ah, the candour of youth!
By the way, both of my children have received good degrees from universities. One works in London; the other is serving in Afghanistan.
Neither one thought a secondary school in Swanage made any sense, and both thought that Purbeck could become even better.
I wonder what Swanage pupils currently at Purbeck School feel about this? Have they had a forum to voice their ideas?
I agree with the previous post. DCC said they needed to do something about the falling roll of Purbeck School and others. Its a bit odd the way some people promptly suggested making the Purbeck School situation worse by having another school in Swanage and are now very cross because their suggestion has been binned.
'I have to agree with several of the earlier postings that the more significant loss of secondary education in Swanage occurred back in 1974.' (previous poster)
I agree with the previous post. DCC said they needed to do something about the falling roll of Purbeck School and others. Its a bit odd the way some people promptly suggested making the Purbeck School situation worse by having another school in Swanage and are now very cross because their suggestion has been binned'
(previous poster)
The loss of secondary education to Swanage in the 70's was because DCC changed the system from 2 tier to 3 tier.
Yes it did take away most of its secondary education, now its decided to change it back again from 3 tier to 2 tier that will result in al/the rest of its secondary edcuation being taken away.
DCC have not only said there is falling rolls, they have also said that they plan to build new 21st C state of the art schools. More questions should be asked.
There is simply no justification to create more schools if numbers are declining. There is need to consolidate redundant schools and invest wisely in the schools that result. If the decision to change to a two tier system goes ahead, I for one expect no shortage of investment made to improve Purbeck School to meet these challenges.
If this goes ahead despite local opposition, I expect Purbeck School to become the 'state of the art ', and 'sustainable' school espoused in previous posts. I expect transport and other issues that arise will be addressed to the satisfaction of parents and environmentalists alike.
I would like to see how the powers that be will achieve these goals, and how much they are prepared to spend to do so. I would like to see Education Swanage work with them over setting these challenges, and hold their feet to the fire if they do not fully achieve these goals.
http://www.coastalhost.co.uk/education-swanage/
'There is simply no justification to create more schools if numbers are declining.'
Its not a case of creating more schools, if Swanage Middle and the other Middle schools close, there will be less schools. There is a case of reducing the size of Purbeck School, and creating two 'human scale' schools that will be able to offer a more personal education to our children. Why have one huge school in Wareham when hundreds of secondary aged children live in the Swanage area?
'The government hasn't placed a legal imperative on schools to be eco-friendly by any date; it is a goal, not law.'
No not law, but being strongly encouraged
http://www.liverpoolworldcentre.org/site/media/Resources/Sustainableschoolsleaflet.pdf
http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/sustainableschools/about/about_detail.cfm?id=17&levelselected=2
Sustainable Schools
To achieve this, the Government has set an aim for all schools
to be Sustainable Schools by 2020.
A commitment to care
'Sustainable schools have a caring ethos – care for oneself, for each other (across cultures, distances and generations) and for the environment itself (far and near).
Schools are already caring places, but a sustainable school extends this commitment into new areas. It cares about the energy and water it consumes, the waste it reduces, the food it serves, the traffic it attracts, and the difficulties faced by the people living in its community and in other parts of the world.'
Most children would be able to walk or cycle to a Secondary in Swanage.
The two tier system seems to work well in Christchurch. The schools there are top rated, much higher rated than those in Purbeck. Yet Christchurch is not without its social issues. Why is this?
It comes down to inspirational leadership and advanced thinking, not just through fixating on concepts like 'sustainable' and 'human-size'. Look at how Twynham School has advanced to the top tier; how The Grange has made enormous strides despite some very real and difficult social challenges. Both schools are run by dynamic leaders, bold Governors and energized staff. The Priory School and Christchurch Junior are both highly praised. It works!
These schools possess qualities of leadership that may be lacking in Purbeck. Others may decide this. But I ask: is it possible that Purbeck could be more inward-looking than Christchurch (geography no doubt being a factor); and to compensate it needs to cast its aspirations outward and not even more inward?
IF you do achieve a new, local secondary school, I suggest you create one that is educationally world class; that brings our children in touch with the realities of the world beyond Corfe Castle; and not one that is just cozy or parochial. But does Swanage possess the energy and talent to do this alone?
Is it not interesting that no comments in this blog have fallen over themselves in praise for Swanage Middle School and its leadership?
Again I ask: what makes us believe that a new secondary school in Swanage will be any better than just an extended version of SMS?
Who will lead this bold new vision that ES espouses?
Most children would be able to walk or cycle to a Secondary in Swanage.
Then why all the cars and SUVs dropping kids off every morning?
My kids use Purbeck Sports Center all the time. There's nothing like it in Swanage and they like their sport and exercise.
If any new secondary school is considered, it must have a sports center as good as Purbeck otherwise I think I would rather have my children educated at Purbeck where there is first rate sports provision.
Most children would be able to walk or cycle to a Secondary in Swanage.
Then why all the cars and SUVs dropping kids off every morning?
Sustainable Travel report
Swanage Middle:
363 pupils
229 Walk
3 Cycling
16,820.23 kg CO2 (total per year)
46.34 kg CO2 (per pupil per year)
Green rated school.
Purbeck School
1,094 pupils
112 walk
34 cycle
382,067.67 kg CO2 (total per year)
349.24 kg CO2 (per pupil per year)
Red rated school.
If the children at the Swanage school were secondary aged they would be expected to be able to walk further. This would mean a predicted rise in children walking /cycling ie a further decline in CO2.
Reading previous posts on this and other threads, it strikes me that most of the parents of children AT the Purbeck School and most of the ex-pupils who express views about this issue, are NOT in favour of a Swanage Secondary. Most of these people would not be happy to have their children educated in a very small school in Swanage right up to the point they go to college.
I wonder if many of the 'Education-Swanage' supporters have very young children, and find it hard to look forward to the stage when their kids want to find a bit of independence? I think if most teenagers were asked, they'd prefer to mix with a wider peer group.
Is there really the widespread support in the town that Education Swanage claim for a Swanage secondary?
11.55 So this is all about climate change, and not providing the best education for our children?
As a parent, that is not the order of my priorities.
You will lose your battle if you argue 'off the main point', which is to determine the best education provision for the children of Swanage.
12.13 I agree with you. I wish this were a matter upon which the voters of Swanage could decide, especially as it will have to be paid for somehow. I am not certain who Education Swanage members are, and I won't question their passion for this, but it is becoming clear to me that their goals (which at first glance appealed to me) are now deviating from my, and other parents with whom I have spoken, views. In fact, I have not spoken with anyone in Swanage who think this will happen.
1.12 am and 1.20am. I agree.
I would describe myself as a person concerned about climate change and making choices every day to try to reduce my family's carbon footprint through the way we live.
However, my top priority for my kids' education, is their education. Not how green the school is. That is important, and I would work with whichever school to help it become more eco friendly. But at the end of the day, we want a good school, and one that is going to have all the advantages of specialist teachers and great sport facilities etc.
I want my kids to be aware of the wider world, and how they can make a difference at local and global levels. I also want them to have the opportunity to get the best education possible in a comprehensive environment.
Even if there was a bit more money, I think many Swanage parents feel that the answer isn't a small secondary in Swanage. 12.13, I think there are many people who agree with you.
7.13pm
'Why have one huge school in Wareham when hundreds of secondary aged children live in the Swanage area?'
Even with two more year groups, Purbeck Skool wouldn't be that huge - not that much bigger than average (and in the size range that gets the best Ofsted / exam results, I fink). In fact, it would still be smaller than it was about 20 years ago.
What's so terrible?!
And, with the extra resources it will receive, Purbeck School will be even better equipped, staffed and prepared to improve itself.
It WILL happen, so let's make sure it happens the right way!
A previous poster said we should all throw our energies into making sure Purbeck continues to get even better.
My kids went there. Both got cracking degrees from top universities. Both really enjoyed their school life. Both had good relationships with their teachers (at least almost all of them!) With extra funding, Purbeck can get even better.
Is it that parents don't or won't engage? Agree with last post - let's make sure it happens the right way.
Here's an out-of-the-box suggestion that might assuage the environmental concerns of Education Swanage:
Instead of relying on cars or buses for the school run, pressure the councils to think of rail as the solution:
-create a 'halt' station where the Swanage Rail track crosses the 352;
-then upgrade the sidewalk from that point to Purbeck School and create a pedestrian tunnel (with CCTV cameras) under, or bridge over, the A351 roundabout. This walk could be fenced for safety and traverse the A351 just south of the roundabout, abutting school property. Children could be kept under supervision and safe from adverse elements at the school, until the train arrives, thus waiting at the school in safety and comfort until released to make the 5 minute journey by foot to the halt (= healthy exercise twice a day!).
-Those two mothballed locomotives that were purchased by DCC (or was it PDC?) can be released to provide a sort of 'Purbeck Express' train (like 'Hogwart's Express!) to make trips between Swanage Station and the school. It would put Swanage and Swanage railway on the map for finding a novel and creative solution.
-The trains (or certain carriages exclusive to school children) can be supervised and exclusive to pupils and staff; hence concerns over safety and child protection issues are assured.
-These trains could also (when the time comes and Wareham Station is linked) go into service at other times of the day for commuters going further afield by extending the journey to Wareham station. This is a long term goal of DCC and this plan would provide it with further impetus.
Besides protecting the environment, reducing car journeys, and avoiding expensive contracts with bus companies, it would be a quicker journey (20-25 minutes) if express, or perhaps 30 minutes with stops at Herston and Corfe Castle. The costs could be predicted and fixed by the operator' making it easier to fund it from Councils.
No doubt money will have to be found, and planning and other permissions obtained, but it just may solve several challenges (education and transport) facing Swanage.
Until is happens, buses can be contracted between Swanage and Purbeck School. Buses are better for the environment than the cars they replace.
Crazy idea? Perhaps. But don't reject it too soon! I remember being told of a story of David Mellor being ragged on one such school commute by rail to or from Swanage 50 years ago, so the concept is probably an old one!
That's a very good idea, but to test my memory, doesn't the rail line meet the main one at Worgret?
Worgret Halt, short walk to school, don't need to bother with the mainline.
But that of course is only if my memory can be relied on!
Right you are! There is a junction there, more or less where I was proposing as a site for a halt for the school.
Is that a farm there (I am looking at the satellite photo? I wonder what their reaction to this might be? I wonder if there is enough room at the halt for this idea?
I'd like everyone in the whole of Purbeck to have the choice of either Purbeck or Lytchett Minster and free transport to whichever one they got into. It's not that much further if you've had to go 10 miles already.
The increased rivalry would be good for Purbeck. Their academic standards are not good enough and even their value addded scores have fallen.
Agreed. Purbeck needs the challenge from Lytchett.
'I'd like everyone in the whole of Purbeck to have the choice of either Purbeck or Lytchett Minster and free transport to whichever one they got into. It's not that much further if you've had to go 10 miles already.'
I suppose that's what a lot of parents think, and are already doing, once children have travelled 10 miles, they just as well travel the extra few miles to schools at Lytchett, Poole and Parkstone.
This is a very depressing situation, and should not be necessary. If there was a good local school on the doorstep, parents should not feel the need to send their children to these schools miles away.
' I want my kids to be aware of the wider world, and how they can make a difference at local and global levels.'
Do children really experience the 'wider world' at the Purbeck School?
The competition would be healthy. More children could be included in music eg in the band, choir, sports, the schools could meet up for music days, and sports tournaments.
It seems to me that there are exiting educational amenties available in the Swanage area, right here on our doorstep. eg Leeson House, Durlston,Harrow House, Studland,Swanage Sailing Club,Burngate quarrying centre (Keystone Project), Brenscombe.
Young people from all over the country visit Swanage on field trips etc to access these wonderful facilities, to do their GCSE/A level/Degree studies-in geology, coastal erosion,sailing oceanography, geography, environment studies, ecology, stone carving, quarrying, rural studies, outward bound, languages, tourism.
Our children could have access to these amenties too, as part of their edcuation.
The new plans for education will be for schools to form partnerships with other local educational organisations. These businesses would then also be able to benefit.
What stands out as being special in my edcuation? Being taught to canoe, by Mike Etherington, and paddling out to Old Harry Rocks, along with other 15 year olds. Noticing the rock formation of the cliffs, the beauty of Swanage bay, and being taught the names of the sea birds, working as a team, to practise rescue routines and having to paddle against the tide to get back to the beach.
No, I didn't find my edcucation in Swanage dull, or narrow at all, I have travelled abroad, enjoyed adult learning and have a strong sense of community. I cannot think of anywhere I would rather live. My children also appreciate this area, they have never been bored, have travelled the world. For me it is a joy that more recently young families are moving here and also have stong community values and have the energy to fight for a local secondary school. If this is what young professional families want for their children, then I support this wholeheartedly.
Perhaps the concept of 'small is beautiful' is a new and growing mindset, and is what 'community cohesion' is all about.
Of course there are attributes to being a local school. To paraphrase an old saying, 'What makes a good school is in the eye of each individual'.
But I will return again, and again, and again, to this point: there is and there will be no extra funding for this at this time. Not while there is a viable alternative in Wareham that appears to have the support of a good proportion of Swanage parents as well as the mandarins in government.
This is why I would welcome a referendum from all those directly affected by this in Swanage: rate payers, parents, and the older pupils already in secondary school, and those in the last two years at SMS who would be in secondary school if this goes ahead, before we expend any more effort debating the relative merits of both sides of the issue. I'd like to accurately gauge where they stand on this. 141 have signed the online petition, but a number of these are 'anonymous' or are duplicate signatures, amounting to less than 2% of the town's population. Not exactly overwhelming support, or scientific evidence that this is what is wanted. There has to be a better way to gauge local opinion. Anecdotal evidence will not wash.
I'd love to see a non-selective secondary school as academically excellent as Twynham or Highcliffe here in our town, where the kids will receive a fantastic education as well as enjoy and experience all that our corner of the world has to offer. But if it won't happen here; compromise is in order. Anyway, if the kids go to Purbeck, they can still have access through their schools to the local places and experiences you cite up through the junior school years, can't they? Or in their free time and holidays, once in secondary school?
There are many of us in Swanage and nearby villages who remember when Purbeck had a number of private schools: Durlston Court, Forres, The Old Malthouse, Hillcrest, Durnford, and many more. These all faded away due to the challenges of the remoteness of Swanage. Dick Morris told me that his school's greatest challenge was being situated between a flock of sheep and a school of fish. Forres is now flourishing in the New Forest. It may be ironic that the state sector will follow suit and leave Swanage, as far as secondary education is concerned, but there you are.
We have not addressed this issue with regards Sandford Middle, a highly rated middle school that is in the same situation. Has ES been in touch with their supporters group? It seems they would be useful allies; strength in numbers.
Whatever happens, 'Small is beautiful' will continue up through the junior school years in Swanage. Beyond that we may have to be realistic about our hopes during these difficult economic times. I again encourage a pragmatic approach to compromise so that whatever happens, it will be a better situation for our children.
I think you forgot to mention the 400 or so signatures at the brief drop in outside the Co -op and K's.
I am glad to know there are more!
But that is still less than 6% of the population of Swanage alone - hardly overwhelming, I am afraid.
More evidence of support is needed!
Is there any way the primary and middle school in Swanage can ballot its parents, or would that be some sort of conflict of interest? If the schools cannot, can the Parent-Teacher groups do this in each school? It will be more compelling.
I presume ES has asked to speak to every Parent-Teacher group to explain its proposals?
If not, why not? The parents will be its key group of supporters.
I think all this is missing the point:
THERE ISN'T ANY MONEY!
I have been saying this for days!
The people who signed the petition in Swanage.. What did they want, a campus of the Purbeck school here, or a small Swanage secondary?
Very different things.
Most people do not make informed choices when stopped to sign a petition.
They could have signed for either choice, nor neither. Are you for a new school? Sure! Sort out the details later....
So much for my idea of a rail link for school children from Swanage to Wareham (or will my litle plan be the saving grace of Swanage Railway?)
http://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=53676
Mike - should this be a new thread?
6.27 Yes very different things indeed. The earlier poster who wondered if the majority of Education Swanage supporters are parents of young children made some very valid points. It strikes me too that many ex-pupils and parents of older children would not be so happy for them to be educated in Swanage until they reach college/university age. it is certainly the impression that my friends and family have given me.
I was educated at Purbeck, achieved a good degree, lived and travelled elsewhere. I didn't find my education dull either. My children were educated at Purbeck and achieved excellent results. I expect them to live elsewhere and travel the world too. Perhaps, like me, they will choose to return to Swanage later in life. I do believe that attending school in Wareham was not harmful to them in any way. On the contrary, I think it was beneficial for them to leave the confines of Swanage everyday and to travel to a larger school. They were well prepared to attend university as confident young people.
As a family we have experienced many of the things mentioned by 4.09 that make living here wonderful. I'm not sure how or why sending children to school in Wareham would deprive them of such experiences. Furthermore, there is no reason why Purbeck School cannot forge closer links with local organisations from Wareham. It's hardly the other side of England.
I meant forge links with organisations in Swanage from where the school is situated in Wareham.
'Young people from all over the country visit Swanage on field trips etc to access these wonderful facilities, to do their GCSE/A level/Degree studies-in geology, coastal erosion,sailing oceanography, geography, environment studies, ecology, stone carving, quarrying, rural studies, outward bound, languages, tourism.' I think you'll find that Geography GCSE and Geology A level students do already study the resources on their doorstep. It wouldn't be too much of a task to include sailing and oceanography in the curriculum.
Wareham based pupils could travel here and those living in Swanage could stay here for those sessions. Not an impossible task. My son attended some sessions at Durlston Country Park (arranged by the school)and just didn't get the bus to Purbeck on those occasions. Instead he rode his bike up the road. In fact if such options were to be offered, we should expect that pupils living in Wareham should be included and they would be bussed here.
The point that I'm making is that there are endless possibilities that could be explored with the existing Purbeck School. It does not need a new and expensive Swanage Secondary to follow an alternative curriculum.
http://www.swanagerailwaytrust.org.uk/appeals/index.htm
Project Wareham Appeal.
There's no 'shock and horror' on the SRT website about the funding.
As for support, from
http://www.coastalhost.co.uk/education-swanage/
"Despite the support for a secondary school consultation in Swanage by hundreds of local people, dozens of local businesses, Swanage Town Council, Jim Knight MP, and prospective parliamentary candidates Ros Kayes and Richard Drax,..."
Hundreds of local people out of .... Swanage 10,000, Langton, Kingston, Harmans Cross ..... Wool, Lychett Minster, Upton, all of whom will be effected.
Dozens of local businesses, out of 00's in the Swanage area and it's far more if you include the rest of Purbeck.
Then a bunch of Politicians who can have damn all effect on what County do.
I'm glad that I went to Purbeck, and I'm one of the few who started Secondary in Swanage and then went Comprehensive.
The travelling didn't bother me, and it widened my horizons.
Mind you, I come from a poor family who couldn't afford holidays and trips etc.
Concentrate on making Purbeck an excellent school, which can then support Leeson House etc and provide for those who want to work in the Trades or Industry - be they Creative, Heavy or Light.
I don't understand the argument that we will become 'inbred'. Are people in Wareham worried that their children aren't having their horizons broadened? After all, it's half the size of Swanage and has far less going on.
No, they are happy they have a school nearby and the sports facilities and extra services that go with it.
Agree 7.42 and the politicians are going to jump on any perceived bandwagon to try and get our votes in an election year! They can safely support this cause knowing that they have no jurisdiction over DCC decisions.
The Wareham kids get to mix with Swanage kids, Bovy kids, etc. It's more to do with meeting people who have not been in the same class as you for years. Imagine being stuck with a small peer group from the age of 5 to 16 if you feel that you do not have any kindred spirits in that group. For some kids it's a relief to go somewhere bigger and broaden the mix.
Absolutely, 8.57. That's entirely the point. It's the mixing of children and the chance to make new friends.
If the secondary school for the whole of Purbeck was here in Swanage, then we'd be happy for everyone to come here, and there'd be no talk of 'inbreeding'! But it's in Wareham, and many of us don't really see the problem.
I note the absence of any comments from those who still see merit in this.
7.42
'There's no 'shock and horror' on the SRT website about the funding.'
This is what I referred to:
February 4th 2010:
A Town & Community collectively holds its breath……………..
The much loved Swanage Railway, devotedly restored over the last 30 years is in danger of missing a key deadline to re-connect to the main line as local councils ponder funding issues.
Swanage is on the Dorset Peninsula known as the Isle of Purbeck and is an idyllic Victorian seaside resort, nestling at the eastern gateway to the spectacular World Heritage Jurassic Coast. Access to the region is limited to a single road in through Wareham and Corfe Castle or via the chain ferry at Sandbanks. This limited access has always restricted the number of visitors the region can comfortably support or the ability of local residents to travel to Bournemouth and Poole for work or education.
Having originally been closed in the early ‘70s, a dedicated band of hard working volunteers have spent the last 30 years restoring the line with the fervent hope of achieving a regular service by connecting to the Network Rail system at Wareham. This achievement is now in jeopardy as a key milestone approaches, namely Network Rail’s process planning for future signalling requirements. To achieve this and give it every opportunity of re-connection after 2012, the railway in the form of the Purbeck Rail Partnership needs an investment of £3 million to be committed by the end of February.
Apparent sources of funding from the Swanage Town Council, Purbeck District Council and elsewhere have so far not been forthcoming even though reputedly significant sums of money are invested or held elsewhere.
Informed estimates of the likely increased annual contribution to the local economy of a direct rail link are in excess of £7 million so what better investment could be made in the region’s future?
“The impact on the Town and the Isle of Purbeck of losing the service in the early ‘70s was dramatic, reconnecting the line would have an equally dramatic positive impact on the region from a social, economic and commercial perspective” said Julian Maughan, Vice Chairman of the Swanage & Purbeck Hospitality Association.
Once the investment has been secured, there are still a number of tasks to be funded and completed before the line can be re-opened for regular passenger traffic. However, without inclusion in Network Rail’s Poole to Wool re-signalling scheme for 2012, it is unlikely that such an opportunity will arise for many years. Hence this is the chance of a generation.
A regular rail connection to Wareham will allow people to travel between Purbeck and the rest of the country without using their cars, thus alleviating pressure on the county’s already crowded roads, as well as the environment.
Swanage Railway is already running regular train services over most of the branch. This has a substantial impact on the economy of Purbeck and Dorset. In 2009, Swanage Railway carried a record 224,000 passengers. Furthermore, the first through passenger trains from outside Dorset since 1972 arrived in Swanage with several more planned for 2010. Even these irregular charter trains had a major impact on the local economy as they brought many people into the area, benefitting the retail and hospitality trade in Swanage
For more information please contact Mr Julian Maughan Vice Chairman - Swanage & Purbeck Hospitality Association 01929 423972 / stay@thecastleton.co.uk
I think all this is missing the point:
THERE ISN'T ANY MONEY!
Oh but there is money, remember parents have been promised that 21st Centuary Schools will be built and expanded to include community facilities, if this isn't going to be the case, perhaps parents should ask questions about what is going to happen.
http://www.pets-on-holiday.co.uk/files/3-tier-2-tier-factsheet.pdf
If nothing else, just keep asking questions, and read up as much as you can about all of this. Just so that you are informed.
There isn't money. Not for this. Get real for once.
Lots of interesting comments here, for and against the idea of a secondary. As far as I'm aware, Education Swanage were campaigning for a consultation on a secondary school and using their ideas to prove a case for one. Then people in Swanage could decide what they wanted. If the consultation wasn't strongly in favour there wouldn't be any point in taking the idea forward, but if people aren't even asked it seems very unfair.
Maybe those parents should then put their energy into Purbeck School, as it needs some help to improve its reputation. At the moment a few people say it was good for them but most people seem to say it's no better than OK and the parents who want the very best for their kids seem to do their best to send their kids out of the area, which will always mean a school that is struggling to do better than average.
Lots of interesting comments here, for and against the idea of a secondary. As far as I'm aware, Education Swanage were campaigning for a consultation on a secondary school and using their ideas to prove a case for one. Then people in Swanage could decide what they wanted. If the consultation wasn't strongly in favour there wouldn't be any point in taking the idea forward, but if people aren't even asked it seems very unfair.
Maybe those parents should then put their energy into Purbeck School, as it needs some help to improve its reputation. At the moment a few people say it was good for them but most people seem to say it's no better than OK and the parents who want the very best for their kids seem to do their best to send their kids out of the area, which will always mean a school that is struggling to do better than average.
What scares me is that there's no money. Not even for the reorganisation. Why don't the council wait and see what happens after the general election and until after the recession. Stupid to enlarge purbeck school on the cheap when it isn't even very popular. Better to wait until they can either afford a proper expansion or until the tories bring in money for small schools. if that ever really happens!
An interesting proposal, but governments have a tendency to carry on regardless once the wheels are put into motion.
Dear 10.53
"There's no 'shock and horror' on the SRT website about the funding.'
This is what I referred to:
February 4th 2010:
A Town & Community collectively holds its breath…………….."
Yeah, I read 'your' report and it's a shock and horror press release, so I went to the Rail site to see what they were saying .......
So maybe we should hold fire on that issue.
The thing that I find most amazing about this is that very few people turn out to vote in Local elections, but suddenly everyone is up in arms when our elected bodies make decisions that we don't agree with!
As there is an historical slant to this, then STC, PDC and DCC, who we all moan about, have been Tory controlled since even I was a nipper! (Yeah, I know that PDC is now hung).
Mind you, according to the beeb, the Tories will allow parents and not-for-profit organisations to set up their own Schools when/if elected.
Romantic visions of the good old days of BR service into Swanage....rose-tinted specs vision of a happy, small, human-scale sustainable secondary school....I have followed these - and other - ideas on this discussion board since its inception. The common aspect to all these schemes is money - and in particular this common belief that the government will provide. Well, dear reader, just where does the government get this largess? And, in the deepest recession since the Great Depression, where will it find this money in the near future?
Borrow more? And leave it up to our children to repay the debt?
Print more? And deal with the inflation that will follow?
Let's get a grip and accept the fact that we cannot have everything we want. I suggest we wait and use the next few years to sort out what we have, not through throwing more money at it, but by doing a bit of 'house cleaning' that we missed while we dreamed big ideas.
Raise money to keep the last Vulcan bomber flying? Not now - mothball it until money becomes readily available again. Join up Swanage Railway to the main line? Not now - not until a viable transport scheme and business plan justifies it (in the meantime, get our elected official to defer any impending deadline). Build a new secondary school? Not now - let's pressure Purbeck School to improve itself once it has extra numbers and more resources. And, for goodness sake, let's stop dreaming ways of spending the money from the sale of SBV - the interest alone from it will have to add to the town coffers for the next century. At least that is what we are told, though I wonder.....
Taking a realistic approach is what we are all having to have to do with our home budgets, and our businesses plans, as we work through this 'Great Recession' as apparently it has been named. Let's stop spending money on 'grand schemes' and instead pause, think, analyse, and await the economic recovery to come - with coherent plans at the ready, when the time is right.
Ok if there is no funding at all, then do nothing, except make existing schools even better, if there are empty rooms, let them out for Adult Ed or office space.
If there is no funding, then why go ahead with any of this reorganisation. Seems to me if this gets started children could be in portacabins for years to come, and will distrupt children's education for years.
Swanage Middle is doing brilliantly under the vision of Dave Pratten, why change something that is working well, and is a good local employer.
Build on the postive, not destroy the whole system for a badly funded 2 tier, that only results in an average Purbeck school getting bigger and even more impersonal.
"Purbeck school getting bigger and even more impersonal."
Whats impersonal about it? What exactly does that mean? We never found it was impersonal when our children went there. We found the teachers and the various levels of management human and approachable, and generally very competent. In contrast the small first school they attended was pretty useless. Purbeck was always far more accepting of individuality, even when it reached the point of eccentricity whereas both first and middle expected their students to conform to an absurd stereotype of childhood, had low expectations of achievement and had very little insight or experience of specific learnng difficulties.
Purbeck has only one year to address the inadequacies of the first and middle schools before students start their two year GCSE courses. This is not enough. If you compare results between two and three tiers schools you will see that this is the general experience. A two tier system will raise standards of achievement.
Unfortunately professional solidarity has stopped Purbeck teachers speaking out about this.
10.56 raises many excellent points which we encountered when our children went through Swanage schools and Purbeck School. We concur.
We have also heard many good things about SMS since the arrival of the new Headteacher. Pity he didn't come sooner. One hopes his expertise will be utilised in the transition to come.
One assumes that, in the transition from three to two tier, that TUPE rules will apply, and that teachers adversely affected will be offered positions in the new school system first?
10.56 I also concur. My children did not go to a Swanage first school but did attend Swanage Middle. It wasn't until they attended Purbeck that they really began to flourish. I have found that the Purbeck teachers have shown a better understanding of my children's individual talents and are indeed very approachable. In fact I would have been more than happy for them to attend Purbeck from the age of 11 (as they do in the rest of the country) and I do not find the school too impersonal.
Purbeck keeps us informed with termly progress reports (something which I believe Swanage Middle has recently taken on under the new Head - we did not get this when our kids went there). Teenagers do not want their parents involved in every tiny aspect of their school life. I feel I know enough about their attitude towards learning and progress whilst the children are able to develop independence and maturity. I think Purbeck strikes the right balance. Furthermore it irritates me slightly to hear criticism from parents who have not yet had any dealings with the staff there (because their children are still in first schools).
Speaking as a retired head teacher, I concur with the last three posts. I believe that there is on occasion a slight tendency to succumb to 'junior school gate gossip' which can blow things a tad out of proportion. I am very pleased to witness positive comments from parents at Purbeck which seem to counter some of the comments and criticisms. I commend these testimonies to parents of younger children who may feel a bit apprehensive. Don't be!
I agree with the previous posters. It seems that there are not that many supporters of a Swanage secondary writing on here at this time.
We've got to look beyond this issue though to the big questions about how the review is going to be funded at all. One of the previous posters made good points about not taking on more borrowing, and preserving what we have. DCC should be exercising caution before doing anything. If there isn't anything like the expected funding to expand the first schools into primaries with the same facilities that the kids currently enjoy at the middle school, then why go ahead? If Purbeck school will be getting substandard buildings, and a dodgy split site arrangement, then how does this meet the stated objectives of the review?
We need to know (with a bit of honesty from DCC!) whether the changes will result in an improvement - 'a 21st century school system'. I hope detailed questions will be asked about this at the public meetings. There's a danger that the debate has focussed so much on secondary, that we've lost sight of what our primary schools would need, to take two more year groups.
How much money has actually been secured for all of this? DCC don't seem to give straight answers.
Perhaps DCC needs to consider the wisdom expressed by some posters here, and delay the move to two tier education until proper funding is found and feelings have had a chance to be heard and considered.
Sometimes living with 'the devil you know' is better than living with 'the devil you don't'.
Meanwhile, let's give SMS and the new head a chance to continue to improve things there. It sounds as though there is a commendable work in progress going on there.
I cannot imagine putting this whole project on the back burner for a few years will be anything BUT the 'getting of wisdom' by DCC.
Many parents were against the change to 2 tier. 13 seems to be a good age to move to Purbeck. I was happy for my childen to start Purbeck at 13. From what I see, Education Swanage's main argument has been in response to DCC trying to remove all secondary edcuation from Swanage, and instisting that all children from the age of 11 should go to Purbeck. If they left things be wouldn't this please everyone.
In reality were there many people that supported the 2 tier?
Good that Dave Pratten is doing great things ! I agree with the last poster, support Swanage Middle School.
Carl from Education Swanage here. We are just a few parents and teachers who managed to get an audience with DCC. We had to have a name in order to be acknowledged - as individual parents we would have been completely ignored.
We have a few hundred signatures, which doesn't sound like a lot, but then only 1066 people responded to last year's official consultation in the whole of Purbeck. Of those, 380 were in the Swanage area. Here's the link to the results. http://www.dorsetforyou.com/media/pdf/q/l/Appendix_A_-_Analysis_of_responses.pdf
Dorset's analysis said that the results were 'close', as 62 per cent were against and 38 were in favour. It does not break down the result in Swanage.
The Cabinet have now decided to go forward with the 'original outcome' of the first consultation. Which was to ignore the majority and plough ahead.
The plan has never been to force a school on people, but to get DCC to ask what parents and children want on the specific issue of secondary provision as this was largely glossed over.
And we also want them to assess the social and economic impact on Swanage. The Purbeck Review team say it is beyond their remit, but it is the responsibility of DCC to ensure they are not harming the town.
Ah, the interpretation of the stats.
If you go to page 11 of Karls link then you'll find that 'residents' are strongly against the change (70/30).
'Other' - which includes staff and governors are in favour (60/40).
Parents against (55/45).
Pre-school parents against (55/45).
All the Schools responded, 11 for, 5 against and 2 undecided.
I would encourage everyone who has concerns about the various points raised above to make direct representations to our local councillors. No doubt they are already well aware of opposition to a change from three tier to two tier in principle, but I suspect far less so in respect of unease surrounding Education Swanage’s proposals. It looks very much as though, do date, many of our town, district and county councillors have received only one side of the argument. So to those of you who have stuck up for the Purbeck School in Wareham and the valuable service it provides to Swanage – please make sure you get your message across. Sadly it appears that there has been far too much following of the debate by our political representatives and not nearly enough leadership. Whilst I would always tend to expect this from the sitting and prospective MPs, our councillors – and in particular the county councillors - can and will have a high degree of influence on the final outcome.
I'd like to respond to the figure Carl quotes of '1066 official responses'. This represented only completed questionnaires, and did not include the several thousand signatures on the petitions.
It is not fair or accurate to compare the signatures on the Ed Swan petition with the 'official responses' to the consultation. Compare like for like.
It would be interesting to see how many signatures there would be on a 'leave us alone until there is funding' petition.
'It would be interesting to see how many signatures there would be on a 'leave us alone until there is funding' petition.'
Hear, Hear!
AND full consultation, too!!
I think you'll find that the change to two tier is going to happen. It would take a huge volte-face from DCC to stop it.
The whole reason for this debate is that the Purbeck school has too few students and is thus inefficient.
Please, get used to it.
Out of interest Carl, how many teachers are there actively involved in Education Swanage? The reason I ask is that if 60% of school staff and governors were in favour of the change to 2 tier, I'm wondering how many teachers, staff and governors agree that Swanage would benefit from a Secondary School.
My guess would be 60% or more?
"'Other' - which includes staff and governors are in favour (60/40)."
Usage of English.
The above statement does not imply that ALL the 'Other' responses were staff and governors, just that those staff and governors who did respond are included within the 'Other' category.
As I said;
"Ah, the interpretation of the stats."
5.32
"I think you'll find that the change to two tier is going to happen. It would take a huge volte-face from DCC to stop it.
The whole reason for this debate is that the Purbeck school has too few students and is thus inefficient.
Please, get used to it."
Yes, there's a lot of truth in this, but the financial climate has changed so significantly since this review began, that it may be the prudent thing to do. We were assured of a £70 million block of funding from BSF. That is now not forthcoming. DCC officers have admitted that they would not have begun the review if the recession had started in earnest. Their estimates of the costs (which for 14 schools were ludicrously small in the first place) of a fantastic new school system have been revised downwards constantly, to fit a shrinking purse. The 'carrot' that was waved in the first consultation of a £450000 per annum saving is now planned to cover some of the interest on a colossal loan.
The 'inefficiency' of Purbeck School you suggest as the reason for the review, is financial, not organisational, and will not necessarily be improved by adding two more year groups to the school for these reasons:
1:There is no space at present for the extra kids, so buildings will have to be built and money spent. This raises questions about the quality / adequacy of these if money is stretched.
2: The extra kids will not add 'breadth' to the school, merely 'length', so will not help the organisation of the curriculum. This raises questions about the rationale, as it is unlikely to improve results.
The decision to shelve the reorganisation until more funding is found may require an unlikely volte-face, but caution may be wise. I am not anti-two tier, but I can forsee a situation where what we get is a lot worse and more inefficient than what we have. The Blandford reorganisation resulted in 5 year delays with children in temporary accommodation, huge upheaval and budget overspend, and 3 newly formed primaries being at the very bottom of the SATs league tables. The reorganisation in Shaftesbury resulted in the first ever Dorset school to be in special measures. There was more money for both of these reorganisations than DCC currently have for Purbeck.
With many excellent schools at present in Purbeck, I hope we don't have to 'get used to it' yet.... if we can help it!
Further to my 9.25 post, I should say that I am not anti-two tier, I just think it has got to be done with appropriate planning and funding.
6.32 Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I was trying to ascertain how many teachers are directly involved in Education Swanage because they describe themselves as a group of parent and teachers. We have heard a lot form the parents and I'm interested in gauging the strength of support (not for 2 tier but for a Swanage Secondary) from teachers in the area.
'That is now not forthcoming. DCC officers have admitted that they would not have begun the review if the recession had started in earnest.'
It is not in my nature to be forgiving towards the officers, as this has never been a fair and open consultation, but in hindsight perhaps they are regretting that they have continued with this expensive consultation.
Would all the heads of the first schools have signed up to the 2 tier if they had known that their own First Schools would have been threatened with closure? Resulting in their own governors, staff, parents a school community having to spend hours and hours of time defending them.
John England answered a question at the first public meeting, 'we were not in a recession when we started all of this'.
This consultation has continued regardless of the recession, even though some Conservative councillors said at the outset that this reorganisation would never happen because of lack of funding.
Purbeck is inefficient - financially.
Sorry, I'd made an assumption that everyone knew that funding - at the moment - is calculated by how large - in square metres - a school is and thus how many students it should have.
Presumably DCC have made some calculations and realised that by shoehorning how ever many new students into however many square metres it will make the Purbeck school more 'efficient'.
No, I don't know the formula used and no, I don't know how using Wareham Middle will effect this.
But I'm sure that DDC do.
I am opposed to the proposed changes DCC wish to make to the education system in Swanage but my principal concerns are in respect of the future of Primary school education in the town. Much debate has taken place about the fate of year 7 and 8 pupils currently educated at Swanage Middle but what of the future standard of year 5 and 6 pupils? These currently form the first two years at Swanage Middle and represent the crucial latter stages of key stage two education. They currently benefit from three classes per year allowing differing abilities to be suitably grouped and the pupils to receive the help and support they need. This invaluable set-up disappears in the latest formal proposals.
Many parents in Swanage will I’m sure recall how young and unprepared we thought our children were when they left their first school and started year five at Swanage Middle. However we soon appreciated that in fact they had outgrown their first school and that the Middle School represented a hugely positive step forward in their growth and development.
Personally I think that it’s a great shame that so much negativity and ‘bunker mentality’ has surrounded the primary school debate. Outright closure is a very different scenario to relocation and merger but in many quarters this option was not given a chance. Biggest may not always be the best but smallest can potentially be even more detrimental. I’m sorry but looked at dispassionately it would simply make little sense to lose the Middle School and retain all four first schools as primary schools. The prospect of a primary school having at best only one class per year or, in a worst case scenario, mixed age groups per class is a giant step backwards in my book. Also I would have to question the sense in providing a new primary school for St Marks School on its own on the Middle School site. In addition to questions about the roll at St Marks would this really represent the best use of public money?
Dorset County Council have twice proposed merging two of the four first schools in Swanage and Langton but now appear to have ‘bottled it’ and completely abandoned the idea. No doubt the ‘Save Our School’ campaigners will hold this up as a victory for common sense and local public opinion but is this really the best outcome for the quality
I am opposed to the proposed changes DCC wish to make to the education system in Swanage but my principal concerns are in respect of the future of Primary school education in the town. Much debate has taken place about the fate of year 7 and 8 pupils currently educated at Swanage Middle but what of the future standard of year 5 and 6 pupils? These currently form the first two years at Swanage Middle and represent the crucial latter stages of key stage two education. They currently benefit from three classes per year allowing differing abilities to be suitably grouped and the pupils to receive the help and support they need. This invaluable set-up disappears in the latest formal proposals.
Many parents in Swanage will I’m sure recall how young and unprepared we thought our children were when they left their first school and started year five at Swanage Middle. However we soon appreciated that in fact they had outgrown their first school and that the Middle School represented a hugely positive step forward in their growth and development.
Personally I think that it’s a great shame that so much negativity and ‘bunker mentality’ has surrounded the primary school debate. Outright closure is a very different scenario to relocation and merger but in many quarters this option was not given a chance. Biggest may not always be the best but smallest can potentially be even more detrimental. I’m sorry but looked at dispassionately it would simply make little sense to lose the Middle School and retain all four first schools as primary schools. The prospect of a primary school having at best only one class per year or, in a worst case scenario, mixed age groups per class is a giant step backwards in my book. Also I would have to question the sense in providing a new primary school for St Marks School on its own on the Middle School site. In addition to questions about the roll at St Marks would this really represent the best use of public money?
Dorset County Council have twice proposed merging two of the four first schools in Swanage and Langton but now appear to have ‘bottled it’ and completely abandoned the idea. No doubt the ‘Save Our School’ campaigners will hold this up as a victory for common sense and local public opinion but is this really the best outcome for the quality of future primary school education here? I don’t think so.
1.53 you make some very valid points about the size of the new primaries to be. I did raise this myself some time back. I agree that smaller, mixed age classes are not ideal, particularly as children get older. The range of ability (and the gap between the most and least able pupils) in one class can be really quite large by the time they reach years 5 and 6. This makes it hard for teachers and I can imagine might have a negative effect on the confidence of some pupils.
The same issue applies to small secondaries and setting.
If DCC had run a proper consultation perhaps they may have found a way to organise the schools by asking parents for ideas rather than telling them what they were going to get and weighing up the protests.
It is madness that we have four schools of one form entry or less but most of the reason for is it because of faith schools.
St Mary's refused to budge or have anything to do with anyone else. They had the defence that you cannot reduce the proportion of Catholic places.
St George's refused to budge or have anything to do with St Mark's - even though they are both C of E and are nearest to each other. But it would take a valuable asset from the village.
Swanage First did not want to move to the edge of town and lose its great site - or face the threat of becoming a church school. It may seem like a lot of parents drive now but it is a very small percentage, from Ulwell and Durlston mainly, compared to the number who would have done so under their plan.
If DCC had had their way we would have had everyone in Swanage trying to squeeze into St Mary's as it's nearer. Or people would be opting for St George's as a good known school rather than try the new school. Both are too small to expand so the faith criteria would have come into play, just as they do in other areas.
Having mixed age classes is not SO awful because at that age there is often as much variance within each year group as there is between years.
Most Mount Scar parents would be happy to have had a bigger school and take in St Mark's as long as it was on the current site but then you get the problem of Herston parents driving.
The pattern has been for St Mark's to get smaller and smaller, so to base all plans on the idea of propping it up was never going to be popular.
I’m sorry but looked at dispassionately it would simply make little sense to lose the Middle School and retain all four first schools as primary schools. The prospect of a primary school having at best only one class per year or, in a worst case scenario, mixed age groups per class is a giant step backwards in my book. Also I would have to question the sense in providing a new primary school for St Marks School on its own on the Middle School site. In addition to questions about the roll at St Marks would this really represent the best use of public money?
But to close Swanage First and St George's is wrong too, losing a non denominational school, and a village school.
So why not leave it all as it is. First schools as First Schools and let the Middle continue. It may be that Swanage works better this way.
Nothing seems to be gained by losing 'all' secondary education in Swanage. I agree with you that our children were ready for the Middle School by year 5, these 'Middle' years are important, why destroy this system for a 'lowly funded' 2 tier.
Schools in Dorset are funded by Dorset County Council.
NOT Swanage County Council.
DCC have to do what's best for the County, and then what's best for their Districts and then think about the towns.
Keeping kids in Swanage may just propagate this 'what's best for Swanage' mentality, whilst ignoring bigger issues.
Every town has to fight its own corner. Only those who make a fuss get any services. Our previous town councillor was useless. Perhaps we may now see a change?
Swanage is often told it can't have a sports centre because it would jeopardise the one in Wareham. But the only thing that matters is if there would be enough custom here. If they built the other one in the wrong place it deserves to close.
11.47-
Due to its central location, Purbeck Sports Centre serves Wareham, Sandford, Wool, Swanage and the rural population of most, if not all, of Purbeck. Its location at the crossroads of two major (north-south, east-west) local roads means that it is in about the best place for such a facility. The estimated population of Purbeck is 42,500; Swanage is quoted at 10,124.
You appear to claim that PSC is placed in the wrong position, or that Swanage (surrounded by fish, not people, on two sides) is better placed for such a sports/leisure centre. Is that right?
IMHO Purbeck Sports Centre, and Purbeck School, are in the ideal location - if they are to serve all of Purbeck.
Keeping kids in Swanage may just propagate this 'what's best for Swanage' mentality, whilst ignoring bigger issues.
Why do you imply this way of thinking is a Swanage 'mentality', are you implying that to think in this way is wrong in some way, a view that is small,selfish and narrow minded ? There are some other examples of small thriving towns and villages. Why are they thriving? Because they have retained most of their services eg. Schools, Post Offices, small diverse shops, churches, pubs, village halls. People in these communities have fought to keep the. I hope that wherever you are from (previous poster) that you feel as strongly conncted and attached to your community as many of the people in the Swanage area do. Children need to feel a part of their community too. This is not to say that children should be overprotected (in the small minded sense) and never leave the Swanage area, but to grow and be nutured in a caring community where, local people can support the school, for a few hours during the day has got to be an advantage.
The Unicef Wellbeing Report of 2007showed Britain at the bottom of the table for 'looking out for each other' and bottom overall for well-being.
It is very difficult to overcome these challenges in a large environment.
So far from losing our services, I also agree that we should be fighting for them, and trying to build on existing facilities. We should have a sports centre in Swanage, there should be one to serve Wareham and one for Swanage. It makes no sense to drive from Swanage to Wareham Sports Centre for an hours exercise. But we have no choice.
The present leader of our Swanage Council has been supportive as have many other local councillors, but they also need the community of Swanage to be behind them.
Ive personally learned alot recently, that if we want to make positive changes, we need to do this ourselves. The council cannot do this on their own, but they can be our voice.
Swanage is often told it can't have a sports centre because it would jeopardise the one in Wareham. But the only thing that matters is if there would be enough custom here. If they built the other one in the wrong place it deserves to close.
There is enough custom here. If you were to ask all the 40-60 year olds how they spent their time about 25 years ago, many would say, at Harrow House sports club. It was amazing, it is such a shame that our own children have not experienced this. There was a great mix of people, doctors, builders, accountants. We should have been fighting for another sports facility, what happened we had children, were exhausted and took our eye off the ball! A Swanage sports facility could be sighted at the existing Middle School or ? future Swanage Secondary on this site, or on the old Grammar School Site.
Lets hope our older children feel up to fighting for a Swanage Sports Centre, 'cause after this school fiasco, I think some of us will be a bit worn out!
Antonio over to you !
Oh dear, I am responding to 2.18 and supporting 11.47. I happen to be online at the moment.
A few years ago PDC were trying to get a Sports Centre for Swanage. Alot of time and effort was put into this. We were asked to join a group, led by PDC, to input our views with the aim to achieve this. Then it all went quiet, I don't know what happened to the pot of funding that must have been available to initiate these discussions.
I also know that Gary Suttle and one other councillor did not support the PDC's proposal to fund the more recent expansion of the gym at the Purbeck Sports Centre. I had previously raised the issue with Peter Aston (PDC Democratic Services Office), that the council minutes were (in my view and others) not detailed and did not record the way that councillors voted. It seems that we should be aware of how our councillors vote if we are to re-elect them. I also made my comments known to Gary. I was told that unless councillors specifically ask for their names to be recorded in the minutes, then this does not happen.
Gary wished for his name to be recorded as being against this proposal to finance the Purbeck School Gym.
Perhaps he was hoping that this funding would support a Sports Centre in Swanage ??
The council's Purbeck includes, Lytchett and Upton, it is an extensive area, it seems that we need facilities for Swanage, we are a larger town than Wareham.
The people of Swanage seem to be always trundling along the road to Wareham. PDC/DCC are trying to reduce traffic on the A351, but how does this happen between Swanage and Wareham, if we are for ever having to access facilities in Wareham.
"Keeping kids in Swanage may just propagate this 'what's best for Swanage' mentality, whilst ignoring bigger issues."
That was me wot posted that!
One of the subsequent posts supported that view, the rest, not.
Comments such as
"A few years ago PDC were trying to get a Sports Centre for Swanage"
Not to my knowledge.
They spent £11 or £12 thousand on a survey of what the people of Purbeck wanted. Top of the list, by quite a fair margin, was a Sports Centre in Swanage.
I was at the meeting where the Councils and various local bodies were discussing the survey. When they announced this I was ecstatic; only to be cut down when PDC said that this survey would be considered as 'for information only'.
I was gutted, but I learnt a very important lesson there, democracy and community involvement is a wonderful thing when those in power can afford it.
Now, all of you who are whining and moaning because we, stamp foot, should have a Sports Centre because we, stamp foot, deserve one, weeeellll, guess what
PDC have plans to give us one - a Sports Centre that is!
Now show your knowledge, show that you have engaged with the outside world and tell me how I know it - it's available to the public - if you can be bothered to find it.
It's interesting how this thread has meandered between inter-related topics - schools, transport, environmental issues and now sports centres. The common challenge appears to be funding, or lack thereof.
I will add another reason why Swanage could do with an sports centre - there is a lack of things for holiday makers, especially families with children, to do on wet, inclement days in Swanage. An indoor sports centre would remedy this.
Again, it comes down not just to the will, but to the money. The only pot of gold I can envisage to kick start any of these projects would be the money the town made from selling Swanage Bay View. But is this available for capital expenditure, or must it be invested for the future?
Although it was not perfect, the Vista up at SBV offered a Town Council operated pool, a gym and some other feature. These may, or may not, remain open to public under the new (private) owners. So any opportunity to possibly look at how that facility could better suit Swanage may be gone.
I would hasten to add that Sport Centres, and especially swimming pools, have high running costs and generally require subsidies from Councils or high ticket prices to cover running costs. Perhaps it is not too late to discuss a public/private partnership between STC and Darwin to develop the Vista into a better leisure centre open to not only the park's owners and guests, but to everyone in the town? Darwin may be interested in such a partnership. Just a thought.
Alternately, the the Middle School site would appear to have everything needed for a sport centre which could be built (and funded) in phases. I for one would be willing to vote for an increase in local property rates for this.
I'm 6:44
".... partnership between STC and Darwin to develop the Vista into a better leisure centre...."
That'd put them in competition with what PDC are planning.
Unless you think Swanage should have two Sports Centres?
PLANNING PURBECK'S FUTURE
'19 January - report to Council Core Strategy
Key Issues 2.9:
In Swanage there is opportunity to investigate how a new sports hall
could be provided for the benefit of residents.'
Also Core Strategy 7.2.9 makes the same reference.
These are hardly firm undertakings by PDC. Have you found something better?
Sure have.
Oi!
Go get yer own thread!
This one was supposed to be about schools!
LOL.
I have asked for a new thread so we'll get out of your way!
Will be visiting your thread too tho!
PDC have plans to give us one - a Sports Centre that is!
Now show your knowledge, show that you have engaged with the outside world and tell me how I know it - it's available to the public - if you can be bothered to find it.
It would be only polite to give us the link. Thank you.
So the consultation document is now out. DCC give many reasons about why a secondary school can't happen. There is always 2 sides to any argument.
If anyone has any doubt about the benefits of 'human scale education' please read 'Urban Village Schools' James Wetz.
James Wetz
Background/current work/contact details
James Wetz has worked for over 30 years in education, 16 of these as a secondary school Headteacher. Now an educational consultant and researcher, he is a Visiting Fellow at Bristol University Graduate School of Education, where he is working on re-thinking the design and organisation of secondary schools on a human scale informed by ‘attachment theory’.
He is a Fellow of the Centre for Social Policy at the Warren House Group at Dartington, a Fellow of the RSA and a lay member of Council at Bristol University. He chairs the Board of Governors of a primary school in Knowle in South Bristol.
His report ‘Holding Children in Mind over Time’ was published in 2006, and in 2008 he authored and presented a ‘Dispatches’ Programme for Channel 4 titled ‘Children Left behind’. His book ‘Urban Village Schools – putting relationships at the heart of secondary school organisation and design’, was published by the Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation in November 2009.
He has been commissioned by CfBT (the Centre for British Teachers) to write a Perspective piece which asks whether schooling is now much more than just an educational project and whether Initial Teacher Training is supporting teachers to meet the needs of all our young people. This will be published early in February 2010. He is also a Trustee of the Richard Feilden Foundation which is developing exemplar vocational schools in Uganda, and a Trustee of the ‘Bristol Ensemble’
(a professional chamber orchestra) where he has been influential in designing ‘Preludes’, a seven year term programme to introduce classical music training in two primary schools in the most deprived wards in Bristol, to build primary school orchestras starting with children aged 4 years old in reception classes. He serves on the executive board of ‘Human Scale Education’.
One man's perception. Others on this blog have been supportive of two tier education at Purbeck, many of whom are/have been parents of Purbeck pupils.
I will say it again, and again, again.......there is simply not the money for this to be done at this time.
After boiling down all of the posts on this topic into a sort of loose consensus, I would advise that pressure be placed on the Council to hold off on any change until funding is available. The Government funding formula has changed since this idea was mooted; that in itslef is reason to delay a decision. Best to hold off and revisit things when money is available.
But my guess is the Council will plow on, regardless, as they tend to do, and muddle through this.
Can anyone remember a time when councils admitted to having money to spend? As the chief plank in the platform of the blue variety of politician is not spending money and as they tend to predominate round here we can expect loud protestations of municipal poverty regardless of the reality of the situation. Building lots of schools is a very sensible thing to do in a recession to keep the economy going. Why do you think there is such a large deficit?
One man's perception. Others on this blog have been supportive of two tier education at Purbeck, many of whom are/have been parents of Purbeck pupils.
It has been made very clear by the Education Swanage group and others that a Secondary School option for Swanage is intended to work with Purbeck School and not against it. My 3 children went the the Purbeck School and all did well. They went there at the age of 13 but this will change and this will be fron the age of 11.
After reading James Wetz 'Urban Village Schools', I have no doubt that I agree with the premise that 'human scale schools' are better.
There are many reasons for supporting a secondary school in Swanage and the benefits that this could bring to Swanage children, parents and community. The parents and others that are supporting a secondary school in Swanage are not wrong, or narrow minded, they are intelligent and caring parents, with high expectations for their children. They strongly believe that 2 'human scale' schools would be better.
If the above previous poster takes the time to google James Wetz, they will find that this is not one man's perception, Wetz book 'Urban Village Schools is an in depth research about large v's small scale schools.
To support his theory he sites many additional sources of evidence. His book 'Urban Village Schools' is enlightening and encouraging, it is the work of an experienced and respected headteacher. James Wetz is genuinely researching why the large, centralised,
school system is failing many secondary aged children. He sites one of the problems as being the lack of community cohesion within these type of schools. For example, because of their large size it is impossible for there to be 'all school' assemblies where students can celebrate successes together. Because of the large number of staff it is impactical for the staff to meet all together at the end of the day to discuss and address problems.
Some teachers at Purbeck School say themselves that there is little opportunity for all staff meetings. Is there any time to discuss and address childen with particular problems?
Perhaps this 'large school' system does not fail the brightest and most confident of children but many children fall by the wayside. It is easy to disappear in this large school environment, for many children, life is not so easy and they rely on their school environment and staff for support.
Child psychology also comes into this: John Bowlby 'theory of attachment'.. 'schools should be a 'secure base', in which young people can work effectively and which offers them security and stability, school should act as a 'containing parent', with the teacher-pupil relationship modelled on an early secure parent-child relationship, providing young people with the experience of sensitivity, responsiveness, consistency and recognition that many lack at home... Up to 30% of young people have attachment difficulties that are exacerbated by the current organisation and design of our schools...'
Creating large, impersonal,centralised schools, may be easier and cheaper (in the short term),But do they really address the problem of many children feeling detached and failed by this system?
James Wetz suggests that Building Schools for the Future (BSF-funding), may make things worse not better for children, ie just enlarging existing schools, and that the real question is 'how might we create the settings where all our young people can engage positively in learning and grow up into young adults with a stake in mainstream society, looking back on their schooling with affection and a sense of pride and achievement.'
I don't think we will agree on this Swanage View site, but I'm happy to go along with the views of James Wetz!
After boiling down all of the posts on this topic into a sort of loose consensus, I would advise that pressure be placed on the Council to hold off on any change until funding is available. The Government funding formula has changed since this idea was mooted; that in itslef is reason to delay a decision. Best to hold off and revisit things when money is available.
Yes, totally agree with the above, would rather stay with the present 3 tier system, than change to a badly funded 2 tier with all secondary education at Wareham. The initial consultation last year went ahead with the idea that the BSF funding would be available. We now need sound, as to how the community of Purbeck should respond to this present consultation. How do you suggest that Swanage and Langton respond?
This has become an urgent situation now that the new consultation is out. Most people will not have a clue how to respond, how do you propose to get your messsage out into the public domain?
'Most people will not have a clue how to respond, how do you propose to get your messsage out into the public domain?'
Start small, as I am doing. Lobby Bill Trite, our rep. on PDC. He is highly approachable. I suspect he will be very open and can help this go to the next stage up the political food chain.
For maximum effect, this will have to be seen to come from all sides of the argument: pro/anti two tier; pro/anti Swanage Secondary. I believe it is one proposal we can all agree on. We need more time before anything irreversible happens.
"Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.."
As a teacher (not in Purbeck) I've been reading and doing a bit of research into Mssrs Bowlby and Wetz as quoted above.
They're both child centred, leftish, namby pambies. Which is fine cuz so am I. The problem is that my job is to teach. Yep, 'every child matters', and I support my students as well as I can, but Wetz reckons these lovely little schools where everybody really knows each other, should have a school day from 10 to 6, making the working day 9 to 7.
Do you really think that there are enough well balanced individuals - with a second or higher degree - who will work a 10 hr day and then go home, nice and tired, to their own family, most of whom will be asleep.
Having brilliant ideas about education is all well and good, but please don't forget to speak to the teachers, who actually do the work.
Not many parents would want their children away for so long either. The family environment is as, or more important than the school one.
It's all a bit academic at the moment anyway. James Wetz may say that BSF funding could harm children's education by creating larger schools, but securing BSF funding is the only way DCC could have entertained the expense of building another small school (whether that be a separate school or campus of Purbeck).
And they haven't got it, so surely it would be better to start being realistic as to what's possible.
Having brilliant ideas about education is all well and good, but please don't forget to speak to the teachers, who actually do the work.
Um, your 'human scale' school could start earlier.
Or you could have your meetings at the beginning of the day rather than at the end.
And they haven't got it, so surely it would be better to start being realistic as to what's possible.
What do you consider as being realistic?
Deferring any changes until funding is secured - including two tiers and primary school changes.
The justification - gov't funding formulae have changed since the review began.
This isn't the time for radical changes. Wait and get it right when there IS funding.
SHOULD PURBECK KEEP ITS MIDDLE SCHOOLS?
Deferring any changes until funding is secured - including two tiers and primary school changes.
The justification - gov't funding formulae have changed since the review began.
THIS ISN'T THE TIME FOR RADICAL CHANGES. WAIT AND GET IT RIGHT WHEN THERE IS FUNDING.
Posted by Anonymous to swanageview at 11:40 PM
Some quotes from the original consultation document
Changing to a pattern of primary and secondary schools will enable us to provide up-to-date schools which are fit for the 21st century and to raise standards across the area. School buildings will be modernised, expanded or rebuilt where necessary.
3.6 Building the Schools for the Future
We know we need to invest in our school buildings. The government has launched a number of programmes to help with this including the Primary Capital Programme (PCP), Modernising Schools Grant (MSG) and the Building Schools for the Future Programme (BSF). We need to make sure that the building work that we do provides schools fit for the needs of the 21st century. The Purbeck Review
will enable us to make the Purbeck Schools a priority for these funding streams.
3.8 Enhancing All Provision
By 2010 schools must provide access to
childcare, a varied menu of activities, parenting
support and swift and easy referral to a wide range of specialist support services. There will also be much wider community access to school facilities.
4.1 Why the schools cannot stay as they are?
...Pupils would also be transported further distances to get to their nearest middle school.
The last post leave me confused. I cannot tell which is the quote or the response, as they are intermingled.
A respectful suggestion:
- 'when cutting and pasting from other sources, place it within quotes, or use caps - pity we don't have italics or bold on this blog - like this.'
- THEN PLACE YOUR COMMENTS OR ADDITIONAL WORDS OUTSIDE QUOTES, OR IN CAPS, SO READERS CAN SEE WHICH IS THE QUOTE, AND WHICH IS THE RESPONSE.
Thanks!!
And, if you quote from other sources, explain the point you are trying to make - don't leave them dangling by themselves.
Lesson over!
It wasn't me quoting from the consultation doc before, but its my turn now.
Consultation - 7th January - 25th February 2009
"Changing to a pattern of primary and secondary schools will enable us to provide up-to-date schools which are fit for the 21st centruary and to raise standards across the area...School buildings will be modernised, expanded or rebuilt where necessary."
The question is, how much of this statement is true now that there is no BSF funding available. If it were available would it really be in the best interests of Swanage children's welfare and education to use this funding to support an even larger school in Wareham. Is this the only answer to the problem. Or is there a better way. Should the 3 tier system stay as it is, until, the economy is more reliable and secure, or will the 2 tier system plough ahead in an unreliable and fragile economy?
The new consultation document is available for parents and staff but is not yet available on the Dorsetforyou website at
www.dorsetforyou.com/purbeckreview
How will the people of Swanage be able to respond to this consultation? It affects everyone.
I just read this and I haven't heard or seen anything about the 'consultations' it promises being conducted in Swanage in January or February.
I wonder if Bill Trite can shed some light on this?
Bill Trite:
Email:
w.trite@dorsetcc.gov.uk
The 'new consultation doc' being the one from DCC.
Dorset for you website:
Update on progress
Dorset County Council's Cabinet met on 20th January concerning the Purbeck Review. They have adopted the following recommendations:
Cabinet should implement the outcome of the original consultation that secondary provision in the Purbeck pyramid should be provided in Wareham at the Purbeck School, and;
Officers should include a clear summary of why this decision has been taken in the preamble to the primary consultation papers.
Public consultation will now take place during February and March 2010 concerning fresh proposals for primary provision in Wool and Swanage. These proposals will include:
Retaining both first schools in Wool as primary (aged 4-11) schools;
Retaining the four first schools in the Swanage and Langton Matravers areas as primary (aged 4-11) schools.
Public consultation documents will be made available after half term.
Any questions re present consultation:
Project Manager
Name: Rick Perry
Email: r.perry@dorsetcc.gov.uk
Mobile: 07979240761
So it is, after all is said and done, a fait accompli. Two tier education will happen. SMS will go. Swanage will not have secondary provision.
"Is anyone, on either side of the debate, surprised that the Council would not enter into further public consultation over this issue, or does anyone disagree that this decision was taken most likely a long time ago?"
This is the start of the first post in this thread a month or so ago. Too true.......
Not everything has been a fait accompli with this disorganisation of schools.
Please explain. I am all ears!
Sorry to confuse with the earlier quotes. After the first sentence ALL of it was from the original consultation document.
The point was to show what we had been consulted on - 21st century schools, the chance of BSF money, extended services for all children and their communities.
Another quote:
"3.9 Quality of Provision
The local authority, as well as the Church of England (CoE) and Roman Catholic (RC) Dioceses, will invest heavily in the Purbeck schools to provide a vastly enhanced environment for teaching and learning."
So we should ask everyone, including the bishops, what money is going to be forthcoming.
Another quote:
"Any pattern of provision for the area must be able to fulfil the requirements of the government’s ‘Every Child Matters’ agenda. This initiative aims to bring together all the services required to support children and their families. Schools will need to widen their extended services to serve the local community both before and after the school day. They will also need to look at maximising early
years provision."
We need to ask exactly how DCC propose to serve the secondary age children and the local community of Swanage.
At every point we should remind them that this is what we were consulted on. NOT a cheap botch job.
Do we know whether DCC has applied for any BSF money for Purbeck as a whole, or for Purbeck School, or a possible Swanage secondary school? Do we know whether these grants are still available?
Logic dictates that the longer this is debated, the less likely it will be that funding will be available.
If BSF money is unavailable, what other ideas do you have?
OK, here goes:
1. Schools. The sooner this situation is resolved the better. We are playing with our children's future and no one, including the Councils involved, has any right to delay a decision longer than is necessary. They must resolve this issue as a matter of urgency and then allow the schools and parents to work through the mess to come up with something workable and perhaps even better than current provision. This endless dragging out of the process is wrong, it is cruel, its is divisive, particularly as the Council appears to have made up its mind.
DCC must:
-nail down the date two-tier comes into force, or abandon the whole idea.
-make it clear it has irrevocably decided, one way or another, about a secondary school for Swanage.
2. Provide Swanage with a Recreation/Sports centre. This is needed in Swanage more than any other new facility.
Given these two initiatives, I could provide prospective residents with children with two compelling reasons to move here. Let the schools issue be sorted first; and from it the (a) location and (b) funding of the recreation centre will emerge. Let PDC provide the recreation centre as compensation for imposing two-tier on a reluctant Swanage, as well as rejecting a new secondary school; let it fund the recreation centre through money saved through a more streamlined school structure two tiers will create; let the Councils compensate our children and our community over loss of local schooling from 11-14 by giving them a centre to 'recreate' in , associate in, and remain linked with, Swanage while they are educated in Wareham.
I would put it as bluntly as that to the mandarins in PDC/DCC; after all they are putting our town and villages through this painful period of protracted 'consultations'. We must organize all local businesses and organizations to lobby for these two causes as one voice. We would need one strong advocate to lead this through the chambers of the County Council; that advocate would have to be Bill Trite.
Are you up for a challenge that would either make or break your legacy, Bill??
8:37 PM
Anonymous said...
It should read:
'Let PDC provide the recreation centre' and DCC in part fund it...'
8:44 PM
Anonymous said...
' Let PDC provide the recreation centre as compensation for imposing two-tier on a reluctant Swanage'
CAN WE MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT PDC is nothing to do with the SCHOOL reorganisation...ITS THE DORSET COUNTY COUNCIL'S PURBECK REVIEW OFFICERS THAT ARE RESPONSIBLE AND THE DORSET COUNTY COUNCIL CABINET. NONE OF WHICH LIVE OR HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH PURBECK- THE DCC COMMUNITY AND OVERVIEW COMMITTEE COUNCILLORS DID THEIR BEST, THESE COUNCILLORS LISTENED TO THE COMMUNITY, PARENTS,STAFF, GOVERNORS, WHEN THESE PEOPLE EXPRESSED CONCERNS OF LOSING ALL SECONDARY EDCUATION IN SWANAGE.
PERHAPS WE WILL ALL WAKE UP IN PURBECK SOON TO FIND THAT THIS HAS BEEN ONE LONG NIGHTMARE OF EVENTS. AND THAT HOPEFULLY NONE OF THIS WILL HAPPEN. THEN WE WILL BE ABLE TO THINK POSITIVELY ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY THIS HAS ALL BEEN !!
IF I HAVE READ YOUR POST CORRECTLY YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU ARE HAPPY TO ACCEPT COMPENSATION, IF THIS IS THE CASE ARE YOU ADMITTING THAT SWANAGE WITHOUT ANY SECONDARY EDCUATION IS WRONG - AND THAT IT'S OK TO LOSE OUR MIDDLE SCHOOLS AND FOR THERE TO BE NO SECONDARY SCHOOL FOR SWANAGE. COMPENSATION- ITS A BIT LIKE CARBON OFFSETTING - IT DOESN'T WORK! AND IT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.
Sorry this is me, trying to be positive.
9:38 PM
The recent DCC Cabinet meeting opened with an announcement that Dorset was not on the list, this time around for BSF funding. By requesting documents using the freedom of information act it was found recorded in the ‘risks’ that 'it may be difficult to go ahead with the 2 tier system without BSF funding.
http://www.offonone.com/sos/docs/Project%20Board%20Minutes%20171008.doc
The above may make interesting reading!!
10.03 needs to calm down and learn that, on the interwebs, misuse of the caps key makes him look rather childish....like the rattle was just thrown from his pram....
10.04 Interesting - now that's a conundrum! Thanks.
http://www.offonone.com/sos/docs/
Project%20Board%20Minutes%20171008.doc
10.04 & 12.19:
A case of deja vu ??
Minutes of a meeting dated Oct 2008.
Glad to see that we're not living in the past!
Swanage exists in the past!!!!
Are there going to be public meetings like the last consultation? (Purbeck School / Wool / Bayview holiday park etc). This one seems a lot more low profile.
'Are there going to be public meetings like the last consultation? (Purbeck School / Wool / Bayview holiday park etc). This one seems a lot more low profile.'
It shouldn't be low profile. It is about the future of education for children in the Swanage area.
If you think the community of Swanage deserves to be consulted on then contact Mr Perry.
This is not only a concern for parents but it is a concern for everyone.
If you are happy with all children being bussed to a very large secondary school in Wareham from the age of 11 then ok.
But if you don't agree with this or you have more questions to ask then make sure you say so.
We live in a democracy, and have freedom of speech.
Request a consultation document from:
Project Manager
Name: Rick Perry
Email: r.perry@dorsetcc.gov.uk
Mobile: 07979240761
(details on the Dorset for you website)
I am well aware of the gravity of this. Do not misinterpret a request for information as flippancy!
I know how to comment using the consultation document and certainly have things to say to Mssrs Perry, England and Nash.
Do you know if there are any big public meetings so that some of the important questions and points made on this forum (from all sides of the argument) can be debated in a public forum?
8:45 Not that I'm aware of. The consultation is now just on maintaining all 4 First Schools so that they become Primaries. There is no consultation on the Secondary option and the consultation on a change to two tier was concluded as far as DCC are concerned. If you are still concerned about secondary schooling in Swanage you will need to go along to the forums at the first schools to say so. But I don't think there will be any formal collection of opinions about a Swanage Secondary School as it's not up for consultation and will not be in the new consultation document.
I suppose a secondary school could happen later, but not once a lot of money is ploughed into Purbeck School (I read in the consultation document it might even be rebuilt, even on a new location.
It looks as though it is dead, for now. Probably for good.
IMHO the main point to be made is about funding. Get the funding before sticking our kids in portakabins cos there isn't enough space in the smallest primaries and at Purbeck.
I don't think we should get sidetracked by the secondary argument in responses to the consultation as we may miss putting pressure on the councillors on the most important issue.
If there isn't the money to do it right, leave a system in place that's working until there is. The money lost in deficit budgets at the moment is nothing compared to the interest on a colossal loan. The county could use the small amount of money it actually has (from the Primary Capital Fund) to make improvements to schools within the existing structure. Seems sensible to me.
But short term patch ups do not make long term fiscal sense.
The juggernaut mentality of local government means that two tier will go ahead. This Council 'is not for turning'.
We, the parents and rate payers, can go suck it up, as far as the party hacks are concerned.
I agree that under these circumstances the best thing for we parents and rate payers is to make sure two tier is well funded and thought through. Let's hold their feet to the fire about that.
I don't see why going to two tier now prevents a secondary school in Swanage in the future, if the population of school children rises.
But it won't happen now.
On another note, do the mandarins who dictate such matters to we, the humble serfs, expect to prune staff numbers (hence loss of teacher and other staff jobs) if the rationale behind this is to scale down the number of buildings due to declining numbers of kiddies? Certainly not every job will be saved!
Is NUT/Unison et al involved in this campaign to bring secondary education here? Could it be as much about saving jobs as providing education in Swanage????O
I absolutely agree with the previous poster. Leave it as it is. If there is little funding then this sounds a very sensible suggestion.
Are we able to offer this option to the DCC officers, the COC and Cabinet, it seems to be one that would be supported.
Is NUT/Unison et al involved in this campaign to bring secondary education here? Could it be as much about saving jobs as providing education in Swanage????O
No idea whether the unions are involved with this campaingn. With or without the unions support, I would have thought it was preferrable to keep, Middle or Secondary education and jobs here.
Having suggested this thread a month or so ago, and after reading some very interesting posts, I would have to conclude that there is little, or no, hope that Swanage will have its own secondary school for the foreseeable future as it transitions from three- to two- tier education . Not only has the funding formula changed, and the economy soured, but there appear to be many compelling reasons given by Swanage residents and parents who are not overwhelmingly in favour of such an enterprise, and who would prefer to see that the two-tier change is properly funded and brought to successful fruition first. There is also some opinion in the town that a multi-generational, indoor sports hall/fitness/leisure center would be of benefit to all of Swanage and its visitors; some have stated that it will offer the town's secondary age pupils a way of socialising in Swanage rather than Wareham during evenings and weekends. Another poster has pointed out that a secondary school might one day come to Swanage; the dream need not end with the transition to two tier education in Purbeck. Many bloggers want to hold DCC accountable for a successful and smooth transition.
It is encouraging to see so much open debate happening on this thread (mostly civil and positive!). I do hope that some council members read this blog for information and education.
It is tempting to draw conclusions about whether a school would be popular or not from the comments made here. But it's a small number of posters, most of whom are anonymous, and the better way would be to hold a consultation.
That would have cost nothing, as they are running one anyway.
But they appear to have closed that door. They state they will not enter into consultation about a secondary school for Swanage. Unless you can get Jim Knight to overrule them, which could be a conflict of powers or influence. But keep trying.
Consultation has been defined as deciding what you want to do, telling those effected, listening to their views and then getting on and doing it. That is what DCC are doing. There is not much mileage in telling them to do something completely different.
Affected
Message from Swanage youff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwTpZpwjtIE
Or:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbNEOJMGFAo
LOL
We don't want no skewl in Swanage - geddit??
Thanks for last link. So you don't want no school at all, not nowhere.
How about this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_bvT-DGcWw
or this one.
http://www.pets-on-holiday.co.uk/sos-swanagefirst/files/save-our-school.mp3
I like the second one, but you owe me some royalties for pinching my tune - I would've let you off if it was my mate Bill Bragg singing it, though!
-R Zimmerman
Send loadsamoney to my agent, Brian Greenbaum, Creative Artists Agency, 2000 Avenue Of The Stars. Los Angeles, CA 90067. Phone: 424-288-2000. OK?
'Consultation has been defined as deciding what you want to do, telling those effected, listening to their views and then getting on and doing it. That is what DCC are doing. There is not much mileage in telling them to do something completely different.'
Ummm I don't remember them ever asking for our views. They presented their consultation, told us that there was only one way to do it, and that was to change to 2 tier. Many many people told them that they would prefer to keep the 3 tier. But that was thrown out.
I don't remember Swanage First or St George's asking for their schools to be closed, but they were threatened within the consultation.
I do remember them saying that every school would become a 21st C State of the Art School, not sure if that will happen though?
10.08 The singer is a mate of Billy Bragg's - does that count? Hope he can be let off the loadsamoney!
Is this a lull before the storm ?!
Reduced consultation begins.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/8529869.stm
Cor, that blinkin Postman! I post this and then he goes and starts a new thread about it!
Blinkin' glory seeker!
Naw - he pinched it from you, mate!
Credit where credit's due!
La la la, it twernt im it twer me !! He he.
Its spookily quiet around here. But the gremlins are stirring.
It isn't going to happen. There isn't the money. What money there is will be spent on rationalsing the primary schools and upgrading Purbeck School for the extra Years. It's all there in the plan.
Why don't you open a private school if you want your utopian goals met? Or start up an academy? Or home school your children? (Actually, if a sizeable group of you pooled together to do that right now as a form of protest, you would probably so concern the Council that they might take note of your points.)
(I think I just stirred up the hornet's nest!)
What money there is will be spent on rationalsing the primary schools and upgrading Purbeck School for the extra Years. It's all there in the plan.
What does 'rationalising the Primary Schools' mean? And why does Purbeck School think young people will want to remain at school until they're 19 ??
Wont most young people want to leave school and move on to a college that offers an introduction to the wider world ?
Home education, an idea for Swanage.
There's loads of stuff out there..
Kay and her husband Simon went along to her daughter Sally's parents evening and found that some of the teachers didn't even know who she was.
Sal was bored and felt she was being held back. So Kay and Simon decided to take her out of school and educate her and their other two children, Rosie and Hugo, from home.
All three children have flourished, are very creative and articulate and have gone on to bigger and better things. See Kay's video nation film
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/ondemand/cornwall/videonation/cornwall_homeed?bgc=C0C0C0&nbram=1&lang=en&bbram=1&ms3=6&ms_javascript=true&bbcws=1&size=16x9
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8416023.stm
http://www.education-otherwise.org/
And even better if a group of parents bond together to share the burden, and their expertise. I should imagine Swanage is a perfect setting for a group of home schoolers. In fact, idyllic.
I have scads of knowledge of home schooling and how it can happen.
Apparently there is a belief among some social workers than parents home schooling their children are doing it to cover up abuse.
No doubt parents will have to be 'Vetted and (not)Barred)' to home school their children.
What a sick society.
Who's up for this then? How many parents do we have in Swanage, that think this would be achievable. Would we be able to have a learning base somewhere in Swanage.
Here's some insight from the States, where homeschooling is prevalent (I live in the States and have a holiday place in Swanage. I was in UK education for 30 years).
Homeschooling has proven to be successful for children from Kindergarten through Grade 6. Test results of home schooled children rank high - often higher - than school kids' scores. There is enormous help in the form of curriculum and media, prevalent in the States and growing in the UK, and the internet is full of online help for parents and children like. There are even online schools for home schoolers.
From Grade 7-8 (to translate Grades into Years, add one, hence grade 8 is year 9), the benefits of home schooling continue, but begin to drop off due to social issues, the main one being a desire on the part of the pupil to be with his or her peers during the school day (the 'mummy' tie begins to naturally dissolve). As academic courses become more advanced and practical (such as the Sciences) the ability of parents, the internet, and so on, to teach these subjects falls off. Here, state schools are required by law to permit home schooled children to attend certain subjects in middle and high school, particularly advanced math, the sciences, and extracurricular activities such as team sports, drama, music and after school clubs. Children who are academically gifted tend to leave home schooling in the early teen years in order to follow the advanced placement courses, or International Baccalaureate, which is beyond the ability of most parents, after Grade 8.
In summary, home schooling works extremely well for grades K through 5, reasonably well for middle school (grades 6-8) and less well (on a steeply declining curve) in high school.
There are caveats. Parents must devote most of their time to teach at home. If they co-opt with other parents, they will have to establish group curricula that must be approved by the local education authority. How many parents can do this without at least one educator amongst you? They must bear all costs (which are tax-deductible in America but probably not in the UK). They have to prove to the authorities - academic and social services - that certain criteria are being met, and the children must be assessed in the same way as school kids (e.g. CATS/SATs in the US, SATs/Key Stages in the UK). At present the DforE is at best tolerant - but skeptical - of homeschooling, and the Social Services even more so. I am not aware that OFSTED has any designs on assessing homeschooling as yet. Homeschooling in America has progressed this far through three decades of legal challenges in the courts, particularly to earn the right to include home schooled children in certain lessons and activities in state schools.
It is not for those with faint hearts! You will be with your child 24/7. You will give up your all of your free time. Your child will have the benefit of your attention but will miss out on certain peer interaction. Expect parents/child friction from time to time! He or she may feel 'different' and will need a support group of other home schooled kids, as well as plenty of after school time with state schooled kids. Home schooled kids tend to be scouts, guides, etc more often that state school kids, which makes sense when you think about it.
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If you have the ability, confidence, time, facilities, money, and commitment, then this could be an answer. But if you are considering forming an educational collective, as I read between the lines in the previous post, then you are venturing into a different world - a quasi-private school - which is a whole different ball game. And, based upon what I described in the third paragraph, homeschooling may not work for you if you are seeking an alternative to sending your child to Purbeck at age 11, particular parts of Key Stage 3 and all of Key Stage 4.
I can explain more about these if you like. I can also provide information about co-op public/private high schools which exist here to provide a more personal alternative to the large
comprehensive high school model. Here, many of these are funded by the State, but are managed by the parents and administrators.
Sorry to be so lengthy. I hope this is helpful.
Home schooling seems to be an alternative way forward for Swanage children from the age of 11, if the 2 tier goes ahead without a Swanage Secondary school. Parents are keen to educate their children in the Swanage community, as it has so much potential to offer. Many GCSE, A level and degree students visit the Swanage area to study Geology, Geography, archeology, science and environment studies, so it seems there are already many resources on our doorstep. There are also many part time, early retired, supply teachers that may be willing to support. There are many freelance artists that already work with local schools and may be grateful for extra work.
Would it be possible to set up an education base to share. Many parents may have skills that they would be willing to share.
I'm sorry, but how many parents have the skills and knowledge to teach GCSE and A Level qualifications, for free, all week, without going to work? How many families have access to science / technology labs and specialist up to date resources?
Is it right to deny children the independence of going to school, and the daily interaction with a large and varied peer group (not just a handful of kids whose parents also think they cannot travel 10 miles to school)?
I don't think the previous poster has truly read the two posts prior to theirs.
At primary level, it may be possible (although not necessarily desirable), but at secondary level, it seems like an unfair gamble to take with your children's education and social well-being.
I can explain more about these if you like. I can also provide information about co-op public/private high schools which exist here to provide a more personal alternative to the large
comprehensive high school model. Here, many of these are funded by the State, but are managed by the parents and administrators.
Sorry to be so lengthy. I hope this is helpful.
Thank you for your information. Many parents would like to know more. If you are able to support setting up a secondary school, if necessary for Swanage and have the energy and time to spare then you will be welcomed.
I am the poster of the message before the last. Is Education Swanage affiliated with the New Schools Network? It promotes the type of school I described and I believe you may want for Swanage.
'What is the New Schools Network?
The New Schools Network will facilitate the creation of new, independent state schools. Independence within the state sector has been tried and tested in America and Sweden – and to a limited extent, the UK. There is an increasing body of evidence that schools run by parents, charities and independent organisations improve standards more quickly than those run by politicians – and in the process push existing schools to do better.'
The Daily Telegraph published this article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/7357184/New-dreams-new-schools.html
I hope this is helpful. I would be prepared to help if this is the direction you hope to head.
Hm. OK. I tried to help. Good luck with your school.
The community of Swanage and Langton continue to be mystified by the consultation process. There is no BSF funding for Dorset, obviously we are still in a recession, and there could soon be a change of government.
The drop in dates are given on another thread and on the Dorset for You website (school review), if the previous poster would like to ask questions from Rick Perry about all of this then they would be welcome at any of the school 'drop ins'.
Please continue to question.
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