I see that there is a poll on the PDC website specifically about where to have a large new supermarket (or whether one is needed at all).
http://www.purbeck-dc.gov.uk/land__premises/local_development_framework/supermarket_poll.aspx
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My vote is for home delivery. Get your beans, wine and toilet rolls delivered. Shop locally for fish, meat, bread, cheese and vegetables.
Home delivery = bad for climate change.
what, one van comes into town and delivers to everyone rather than us all driving to Poole?
Ironic that a few years ago pdc opposed an application to build a large supermarket in Wareham but now it is their favoured option.
It was also their favoured option to see Swanage with a working habour, but now not a mention of it in this core strategy. They mess with peoples lives.
When did PDC want a working harbour in Swanage? I have never heard that before. The army offered to construct one in the 1940s but the Swanage Urban district Council said no. PDC did not exist then of course.
I think it was around 1985 that “Swanage 2000” was printed and adopted as a policy document by PDC. I quote:
“Investment and research should be directed towards the provision of” (amongst other things)
“A Yacht Haven
To provide a small sheltered mooring for visiting boats, to be of the highest standard of design. Consideration may be given to including a chandlery, restaurant and other appropriate facilities.”
“Water Sports Centre
To enable greater co-operation between all users of the sea. To provide changing accommodation, meeting rooms and specialised retailing.”
The subsequent 1989 Local plan does not mention a marina at all.
Readers may remember that in 1987 the Durrant Marina plan was defeated in the House of Lords.
The then MP for South Dorset was quoted as saying:
“Swanage has almost set a seal on the fact that it wants to be a retirement town with no facilities, and probably a reducing number of shops…
…I wouldn’t be surprised if we suddenly hear the full time fishermen get up in arms because they have lost an extraordinary cheap quay which was all set to give them enormous advantages”
Not wrong there then.
A few days later, having approved the first phase of the homes on the old Grosvenor site, the Chairman of Planning used his casting vote against the application for the second phase when the committee tied six-six.
Thanks Cllr Budd for the sewage works and half finished Eldorado Flats.
This policy document lists things they hoped other people would do including "investment and research" "directed towards the provision of". Not exactly a policy commitment to make it happen or even support it. The Lords declined to pass the Harbour Act because local opinion was evenly divided for and against. Arguably the Lord's did the "research" which consisted of reading their post-bags hence pdc may be seen as supporting its rejection. How very odd. Politicians of all parties like to give the impression they support all sorts of things but rarely express this unambiguously.
If you took a parish pole today, I bet you too could get 30% of folk to support a ban on tourism, ie the percentage of people who voted against the marina. Probably 30% would have the pubs closed at 10.30pm, the fish and chips shut down, and free car parking for residents.
Amazing, I thought that this was about the possibility of a new supermarket in Purbeck - silly me!
Personally, I shop as locally as possible, but as I work in Poole, that gives me a decent range of shops.
My idea would be that when the Health Centre moves up to Northbrook Rd then the Co-op could expand, but only if they stock/promote local produce; or build a range of small lo-rent units for the local producers to stock; or create a permanent covered market.
put the weekly permanent covered market at the middle school. It has car parking and is shut on Saturdays.
Reading between the lines-I think Steve Dring (Core Strategy) would like us all to say that we don't want a supermarket anywhere !!
But local people need to respond and shout very loudly. I went along to the drop in at the Mowlem Committee rooms about this, and there was hardly anyone there.
3 out of 5 people do their shopping in Swanage, so we are doing well, this is good for the local economy. Many people are beginning to realise the importance of supporting the Purbeck Producers Farmers Markets.
If the few people that enjoy driving and polluting the atmosphere to support Asda and Tescos, think it is worth their time then let them continue to drive. The co - op at least does its best, stocks Fair Trade and will try its best to order special requests.
Please shop locally for local econmomy and the environment!!!!
When dealing with the great British public Steve is, quite understandaby, very diplomatic.
When I said that I wouldn't mind seeing a Waitrose or Lidl/Aldi in Swanage, he nodded and said that many people say that.
Of course they do, as many people say that they want no change.
That's no criticism of Steve or the other 2 officers I spoke to. They are not there to voice their opinions, they are there to listen to us.
(and then laugh uproariously when we've all gone home)!
Whilst I was there a little bird told me that STC are now - behind closed doors - saying that there'll be no affordable housing in Swanage.
Oh, how little they know!
Thats at odds with PDC's plan which is out for consultation and which mandates 50% affordable in new developments in Swanage. Perhaps STC have taken fright at the thought of poor people living here.
We've already got plenty of poor people and around 11 to 12 hundred on the housing waiting list.
One of the officers also agreed that the shared ownership schemes a la Corfe and Newton Knapp are not affordable.
Also, up to 90% affordable to local wage.
What about a Marina for Swanage. Time has moved on. Test the water now! Who is brave enough to propose this. Apparently if there is a need, PDC can look at it. How did this happen last time around. Who proposed it ?? It would need someone with a good bit of funding behind them to make a success of it.
Affordable housing is all we need for Swanage and around its edges. What is the point of wasting good land for more expensive housing that will be bought as investment and stand empty for most of the year. We need people to live here, shop here, school here, work here. Is the ratio for affordable 1 in 5. If so we don't need the 4. Up that tax on the second home owners and keep this for our community, for it to be reinvested into affordable homes. Not social housing but housing that can be rented at a reasonable amount that reflects the average local income. To encourage younger families to stay and also to move and work here.
A few days later, having approved the first phase of the homes on the old Grosvenor site, the Chairman of Planning used his casting vote against the application for the second phase when the committee tied six-six.
Thanks Cllr Budd for the sewage works and half finished Eldorado Flats.
Why are casting votes always used to the detriment of a community??!!
How come the chairman of planning can have 2 votes. Hardly seems fair does it? 2 wrongs do not make a right.
"We need people to live here, shop here, school here, work here." Yes. But second home owners eat in our fancy restaurants, buy fancy cars, support estate agents and shop in our crappy art shops. Realistically without them the national and local economies are shot. Thank goodness for banker bonuses and overpaid celebrities.
Stop being so black and white, what we need is a mixed community.
Anonymous said...
What about a Marina for Swanage. .......
What about, not a marina, but something to simply provide shelter for marine businesses, fisherman, sailors and visiting boats ... such as a simple reef across the bay, to dissipate wave energy and provide safe/r anchorage, or perhaps a harbour wall? Think the Cobb at Lyme Regis rather than the floating caravan park at Brighton.
Good idea.
"our crappy art shops"
Just wondered what sort of art you buy as you don't like the stuff we have in Swanage. What galleries do you think have good stuff?
I actually made the point in the last consultation that it did not mention the sea, moorings or the fishing industry. The fact that the next one does not either reinforces my view that all this is hot air to justify what they have already decided.
Thank goodness for banker bonuses and overpaid celebrities.
That's the trouble, inflated and unrealistic incomes have priced local people out. We are living in a fake economy. Its a part time rural playground for the rich. What happens when there are no locals left to maintain Swanage and its villages?
Personally I quite like alot of the local art, especially the outdoor kind that decorates the Pier Head Cafe! If one thing Swanage can be proud about and that is its art. Not all but most of it is fine.
Let's be absolutely clear here. It is only planning policy which makes affordable housing unavailable to locals. If land is given to a contractor he can build houses and make a profit selling them for £120000. It's ridiculous to suggest that half of the Shore House development should be council houses. If people from outside a stupid enough to come and pay massively over the odds for a sea view, let them. The locals are doing very nicely out of it.
"It's ridiculous to suggest that half of the Shore House development should be council houses."
Why pray is this ridiculous? It is exactly what the district council intends for a development of this size in Swanage. If you do not like the idea better respond accordingly to the consultation thats going on at the moment. By the way we have not had council houses for a few years. I assume you meant housing association or other form of social landlord. It is perfectly sensible sensible to offer property with a sea view to social tenants. What have you got against it? I really don't understand.
What would have been the point of having one of the Huff Hauses in Studland as social? I suggest they would never have been built if the 50% rule applied.
So how will this social housing policy work? Say I own shore house plot and I get permission to build 12 flats/houses. I was reckoning on getting £500,000 for each and building them will cost £4M. So I expect to make £2M.
Then this new scheme comes in and 50% need to be sold to a social landlord and the spec must be the same. How much would I get for the 50% social? How much less would I get for the 50% sold privately?
I did not see anything in the pdc draft saying the spec has to be the same. Can you tell where this is. It has not been the case before. The bit about Swanage is on page 70. Other developments in recent years have an affordable proportion, but rather less, for example Newton Grange is one third affordable.
It says "The Council will apply the following policy in relation to affordable housing provision when
determining planning applications for all new residential development, including residential
elements of mixed use schemes:
The following proportions of affordable housing provision will be required on:
• brownfield market housing developments of 3 or more dwellings, or a site area of 0.1 or
more hectares; and
• greenfield market housing developments of between 3 and 29 dwellings, or a site area
of 0.1 to 0.9 hectares.
(i) at least 50% in the Swanage and Coast sub-market areas"
Page 33 says "For the following villages, this will mean that the settlement boundary will be
deleted: Briantspuddle, Church Knowle, East Burton, East Chaldon, East Lulworth,
Harmans Cross, Kimmeridge, Kingston, Lytchett Minster, Moreton Station, Ridge,
Studland, Worth Matravers. New residential development would be restricted to
affordable housing that meets a local need in accordance with Policy CO:
Countryside and Policy RE: Rural Exception Sites."
So both Huff Houses would have to be affordable!.
I think there is much to support in this and that STC has the opportunity to implement these measures on the DE Moulham estate as they have clearly been identified as beneficial to the town.
this all seems like locking the barn door after the horse has bolted
Supplementary Planning Guidance – July 2005
6.5 It is also important that the design of affordable housing is of at least equal quality to that of the
open market housing on the site. This is important to maintain the environmental quality
6
throughout the whole development, avoid obvious visual distinction between types of housing,
and reduce the possibility of social segregation.
There is however an escape clause on page 70.
"Where it is considered that there are significant economic viability constraints that would
prevent the provision of affordable housing in accordance with the policy, the developer
will be required to provide full justification of exceptional circumstances to the Council’s
satisfaction. Such justification will be expected to include a financial viability appraisal, site
suitability appraisal, and development mix appraisal. This ‘open book’ approach will enable
the Council to form a view on the viability of the proposed scheme, including the
identification of economic constraints (for example, existing high use values) and their
impact. The appraisal will be subject to independent verification, which the applicant will be
expected to fund."
It will be interesting to see how this is applied and the impact of the whole thing on land prices. Until the present market perturbation a house with a decent sized garden was worth more as a development site than as a house to live in.
Equally you can pick up a pub with say 10 bedrooms far cheaper than a similar house.
There are not many 10 bedroomed houses to compare with but the value of hotels is skewed downward by the rule that those with 8 or more bedrooms have to be retained, and in some cases, where the loss of one is thought to be damaging to other businesses around it, permission has been withheld as well. This has been upheld by the inspector on appeal in the Purbeck Hotel's case.
Whether councillor's radicalism in regard to affordable housing is based on their assessment of housing need or whether it simply has more to do with not wanting to receive letters, emails, phone calls and petitioners in general protesting about expensive houses being built is arguable.
If the middle schools are closed, then the Sandford Middle School site would be ideal for a Tesco/Asda/Waitrose (with cheap petrol and free parking). The majority of traffic bound for the Purbecks will pass this store and it will provide cheaper petrol. Traffic will be a disaster but maybe the developers can fund part of the proposed Sandford byepass.
But I suspect the fact that it is adjacent to a Site of Special Interest will prevent this.
So far I have only seen some form of community use suggested. Housing is out because of proximity to heathland, in fact this is what it is built on. Wouldn't a large supermarket there be the death of Wareham? When the council here were trying to attract a supermarket the rationale was to have it in the town centre so people would continue to use the other shops.
If the middle schools are closed, then the Sandford Middle School site would be ideal for a Tesco/Asda/Waitrose (with cheap petrol and free parking).
Oh my goodness, and then all the small shops close, and the garages too. I can't believe anyone would suggest this.
What would have been the point of having one of the Huff Hauses in Studland as social? I suggest they would never have been built if the 50% rule applied.
It really goes to show how these two houses do nothing apart from lining the purse of the developer. Are they still sitting empty. Why did PDC planning allow for them to be built at all. Land could have been put to far better use by building smaller houses for people to actually live in. There is no need for Huff type housing at all..is there??
At the risk of causing an uproar, I am throwing this one into the pit !!
Is there a need ??
An opportunity for farmers to encourage Low Impact Development
Is Purbeck ready for this one? Simon Fairlie (chapter 7) has been working with Dorset councils to encourage a similar policy.
http://www.lammas.org.uk/lowimpact/gallery.htm (explore this site, they have recently been given planning permission)
'Low Impact Development is an idea whose time has come. A radical form of sustainable housing and livelihood which is in tune with the natural environment, it offers us innovative solutions for the environmental, social and economic challenges of the 21st century'
The Joint Unitary Development Plan (JUDP) for Prembrokeshire contains a policy for Low Impact Development (Policy 52 'Making a Positive Contribution).
'If the middle schools are closed, then the Sandford Middle School site would be ideal for a Tesco/Asda/Waitrose (with cheap petrol and free parking).
Oh my goodness, and then all the small shops close, and the garages too. I can't believe anyone would suggest this.'
..................................
When the Co-op and Budgens charge the same prices as superstores, and stop ripping us off, then I will support them. Same for garages overcharging for petrol. Why should groceries cost 15-25% more in Swanage? It's not just the cost of delivery. It's a case of ripping us off because we have no alternative. If we can, we shop in Asda or Tesco. Is it economy of scale? Those who 'can' do the bulk of their shopping at the big stores, and top up locally. Those who 'can't buy locally, but less because things are expensive. Message to Co-op and Budgens: price fairly and you will sell more.
What Swanage needs is an Aldi or a Lidl. That would shake things up.
Now, what Swanage really needs is one massive Tescos, right in the middle of the town. It should sell everthing such as hardware, newspapers, cheap imported fruit and veg, cheap petrol, battery eggs, no Fair Trade, adult and children's clothes, oh and a really cheap cafe that sells cheap burgers and fries. It could be so simple.
Swanage would only need one cheap huge supermarket, all shopping could be done in this huge cheap shop.
The then MP for South Dorset was quoted as saying:
“Swanage has almost set a seal on the fact that it wants to be a retirement town with no facilities, and probably a reducing number of shops…
…I wouldn’t be surprised if we suddenly hear the full time fishermen get up in arms because they have lost an extraordinary cheap quay which was all set to give them enormous advantages”
Not wrong there then.
Who was this MP ?
Ian Bruce
Conservative?
Freemason??
Yes.
“Swanage has almost set a seal on the fact that it wants to be a retirement town with no facilities, and probably a reducing number of shops…"
PDC has long since decided that any major increases in land use for employment should be at Winfrith and Holton Heath. This was not something willed by the people of Swanage but is arguably a fact of geography and land designations. Increases in housing are to be at Wool. Other locations have been favoured at different times but never Swanage. If you think Swanage should have lots of new houses and a large supermarket respond to the current consultation exercise and say so.
Do you really believe the final document will be any different to the draft?
'Do you really believe the final document will be any different to the draft?'
No.
It will be dated differently.
I love the way pdc goes from being seen as an organisation that can't decide whether it wants one spoon of sugar in its tea or two to one determined to pursue a pre-set agenda as soon as it asks the people what they want.
'I love the way pdc goes from being seen as an organisation that can't decide whether it wants one spoon of sugar in its tea or two to one determined to pursue a pre-set agenda as soon as it asks the people what they want.'
Isn't local government always thus?!
My wish list:
Swanage or Wareham needs:
-A budget (not 'Budgen') supermarket i.e. Lidl or Aldi
-A Wilkinsons 'Express' Shop
-A '99p' shop.
-Primark
-Reasonably priced petrol.
I do not think we need a superstore. We need fair prices for the basics. Until then those who can will do the bulk of their shopping in Poole.
'My vote is for home delivery. Get your beans, wine and toilet rolls delivered. '
Is that red or white wine with beans?
A '99p' shop
What do you think Bob's Bits, or whatever its called now, is? We had a number of these establishments in the last recession but they went bust as soon as things picked. Perhaps people realised they sold rubbish.
Goods being cheaper in Poole is a perennial Swanage grumble going way back into the nineteenth century. Even before the railway people were willing to go over there by boat or cart to save a few bob.
My idea would be that when the Health Centre moves up to Northbrook Rd then the Co-op could expand, but only if they stock/promote local produce; or build a range of small lo-rent units for the local producers to stock; or create a permanent covered market.
Re the above, when is the Health centre moving up to Northbrook road? What bit? Thats the first I've heard of it, and I hear everything first!
Fraid yer don't pal!
Noo kid on't blok, ear close to PDC!
Hospital as well, and our new sports centre.
'My vote is for home delivery. Get your beans, wine and toilet rolls delivered. '
Is that red or white wine with beans?
Wise decision?! Thats really going to support the local economy. Why not move nearer to Tescos?..or Asda
My idea would be that when the Health Centre moves up to Northbrook Rd then the Co-op could expand, but only if they stock/promote local produce; or build a range of small lo-rent units for the local producers to stock; or create a permanent covered market.
It seems, that in the Core Strategy things can be moved about like Monopoly. So if we can have the above would be a wonderful way to solve the problem. The Purbeck Producers Market and others would have somewhere to sell their wares, and others could join them too. The Health Centre, the Hospital, the Ambulance Station, could all move up to Northbrook Road, Welfare Dwelling Site (old Grammar School)and a sports centre could be also built on this site too, that's if this land is not used for the new secondary school. If its used for the new secondary school, then the above could be situated on the present SMS site, if the SMS school closes!!
My goodness..its all a bit of a juggling act, and if we take our eye of the ball, we will lose it all!
It's not just SGS, it's on the West side of Northbrook as well, with lots of luvverly cheap - for locals - housing.
Can't wait.
If the co-op should be forced to sell locally produce why should other shops not be subject to the same edict. Perhaps all the gift shops should be required to sell souvenirs of Swanage that actually come from Swanage.
"but only if they stock/promote local produce".
Was my original thought.
Yours:
"... should be forced to sell locally produce..." SIC
I think that you may be slightly misinterpreting my intention. I want to see the Big Boys working with their communities and providing choice. I'm not suggesting that the Co-op stop keeping their usual stock, I'm just suggesting that they be 'forced' to provide us with more choice; and that choice is local.
Personally I'd say that all supermarkets - oxymoron - should be forced to stock/promote local produce.
They have the economy of scale, our local gift etc shops don't.
All I want is more variety between the two existing supermarkets. The Co-op and Budgens are virtually identical in what they supply and what they charge. Aldi or Lidl is what is needed.
I am surprised if Co-op doesn't have some corporate policy to source locally where possible. Why not ask?
'Perhaps all the gift shops should be required to sell souvenirs of Swanage that actually come from Swanage.'
Er....right. A bit of Purbeck stone, some local ice cream, and some local crafts made from seashells.
Not exactly a lot to offer, is it?
In the absence of much in the way of local materials obviously we are looking at adding value locally. We don't expect our local artists to paint on locally grown cotton canvas, use turpentine derived from Purbeck's forests, paint from local pigments. If you add up the output of Dorset's artists as a whole they bring millions of pounds into our economy. Surely there are other areas where local production can be established.
We say "NO" to a new giant supermarket in Swanage, or any other major development in the town. Traffic through the Isle of Purbeck is far too much for the road system (A351) already and any increase will be severely detrimental to the villages and environment along that route. There's a huge amount of "brown field" land at Holton Heath - use that !
'If you add up the output of Dorset's artists as a whole they bring millions of pounds into our economy.'
Millions of pounds? Facts, please.
'We say "NO" to a new giant supermarket in Swanage, or any other major development in the town. Traffic through the Isle of Purbeck is far too much for the road system (A351) already and any increase will be severely detrimental to the villages and environment along that route. There's a huge amount of "brown field" land at Holton Heath - use that !'
.........................
Agree with you that Holton Heath is the best brownfield site. Can't imagine why this hasn't happened already. It makes no sense to build a supercentre in Swanage, the end of the line for traffic flow. Any GCSE geographer knows this.
However, your claim about an increase in traffic on the A351 in Purbeck is contentious. Won't it simply reverse the direction of traffic flow? People in Swanage to Sandford will head north on the A351 to buy their groceries (as many do anyway). People from Wool and Winfrith will add to the congestion through Sandford. That section will become even further jammed with additional traffic. Not a happy thought.
One idea: Asda and Tesco are known for running free shuttle buses. If they had a regular service from Swanage to Holton, a great deal of environmental damage could be avoided to reach this superstore.
Every little helps......
Another idea - Holton Heath could also become a prime location for an intermodel Park and Ride. Think about it. Not only do W&D buses into Poole pass by, but also the Wareham to Poole rail line has provision for an upgraded station nearby. Holton Heath, instead of Wareham, could become a commuter interchange for car, buses and trains.
'Holton Heath - Gateway to the Purbecks' (ok, ok, I know it is not in Purbeck, but....)
It is very difficult to find a total for the value of visual artist's work for the county as a whole but if we look at Dorset Art Weeks, a two week long open studio event held in alternate years, we get a sales turnover of £850,000 for 2006 and £612,000 for 2008. Even if half the work sold remains in county thats quite a lot in two weeks. Even if this accounts for 10% of the total sales of the artists concerned that gives a total of several million. It is hard to arrive at a figure for the participation rate in DAW but a lot of the established professionals tend not to be in it. Many of them do not show locally and sell through galleries in London and locations with more of an art buying public but of course they spend their income here.
Here are some figures about DAW, taken from the East Dorset District Council's draft Arts Policy.
"Dorset Arts Weeks 2008: This open Studio Art Weeks event takes place once every two years.
• the event attracted 10,000 visitors; and
• created £2.4million of direct and indirect expenditure in the county;
• supported the equivalent of 35 full time jobs."
So far as aI am aware PDC does not have an art strategy.
Congrats to the arty types.
The idea of developing around Holton Heath used to be PDC's way out of the housing problem.
BUT, sites of special scientific interest, local fear, sorry, oposition, and the small matter that HH used to be a cordite factory and most of the land is poisoned, and thus unsuitable for humans. Many animals do fine, but not us!
Then PDC leased of a huge amount of the land to someone - English Heritage - not at all sure.
The comments about the A351 do of course have a lot of truth, but the proposed widening of the B3075 and the Wool to Bere Rd, could help a lot, as could the aforementioned HH park and ride.
When we talk about Holton Heath, do we mean the part nearest the main roundabout by the pub (with old, perhaps WWII buildings) or the newer industrial estate at the second roundabout just south where Sunseeker once was? I believe the latter is where the old rail stop is that could become a commuter station. Is this land poisoned or polluted, as it has some modern industrial buildings? Even if it is poisoned by cordite, can part of it be made clean in the same way the old gasworks land in Poole was before they built a million new flats per acre (hideous!)?
If the main roundabout were altered like the one where the A350 crosses the same road a mile or so east, (an elevated roundabout with slip roads allowing unimpeded entry/exit) would this go some way to improving traffic? I imagine the pub would have to be demolished, or the intersection moved east or west to do this.
Why are we talking about an either or supermarket. Just 'cause the form says choose between Swangage or Wareham.
Swanage is doing well, and a high percentage of people use Swanage shops. The concern is if a Tesco's is built in Wareham then Swanage people would drive to Wareham. Just say no to both. Use the form as headings for discussion but do not be guided into ticking the provided boxes!
Come up with your own original comments.
Form?
Do you mean forum? I see no forms to tick.
Whether people in Swanage want this or not(as you suggest), the subject of a major supermarket in Wareham or its environs is part of what PDC is discussing at the moment. For it to be discussed within this forum is therefore entirely relevant and may prompt others to take part.
No didn't mean forum but the form/leaflet, call it what you will: the Core Strategy leaflet that has been delivered to everyones door, has boxes to tick. Do you want a supermarket in Wareham/Swanage ??
And various other questions. It leads people to answer preditermined questions. Think laterally. Don't be confined to the box.
I went to the mega Tesco at Fleetbridge yesterday. What an dreadful experience! I just cannot understand why people go there. We wanted five of six things and they did not have three of them but apart from that it was the sheer awfulness of the place.
Can someone explain the attraction of this strangely alienating place? Give me our local supermarkets any day.
I agree with many other posts on this forum- the 'consultation' has given us little in the way of 'options' and barely any mention of how the transport infrastructure will be improved to account for all these new people. Wareham does not need another supermarket- A SUPERMARKET WOULD KILL WAREHAM TOWN. Support needs to be given to develop an alternative, non multinational, non big-business strategy- lets become the first area to take an alternative route through development instead of the standard low quality (albeit energy efficient) homes, big supermarket, huge car parks, isolated communities without any hub which then leads to isolation, low socialising and community health, low sense of pride in a town, anti-social behaviour and all the other problems which blight this kind of development. I completely understand that we need more housing but why not consider a design which fosters community, walking, cycling, vegetable growing, even domestic energy production... it might all sound a bit hippy-ish but it is possible- we can set a trend here in Purbeck and not just rush into this with the cheapest house building and biggest offer from a supermarket.
The document talks about 'leakage' - the best way to avoid leakage is not to build a supermarket as that takes money straight out of the people of warehams' pockets (whilst lining the councils pockets through rent!) but instead develop a novel infrastructure to encourage local food production, street stalls, support for later opening times, road closures in wareham and street entertainment in the evening to allow local people to shop after work... and all this should not just be in a 'touristy style' but instead it should be a way to show everyone that we can shop locally, cheaply to get healthy food and to meet up with other members of the community.
These are just ideas- I am sure they have their flaws but there is another way-- I would hate to see the demise of wareham. In the 4-ish years I have lived near wareham I have come to know many of the shop keepers and I care about the service they offer... and I really want to see many more businesses started too!!
No supermarket in Swanage either, similar reasons to the poster above. Replace Wareham with Swanage. No supermarket. Encourage small diverse shops, and Purbeck Producers markets, with fresh locally grown, produce, and locally bred animals providing local meat. See Christopher Lees monthly report in the local paper.
My vote is for home delivery. Get your beans, wine and toilet rolls delivered. Shop locally for fish, meat, bread, cheese and vegetables.
So, exactly what is it that you can't buy in Swanage?
My objection with the existing supermarkets (Co-op and Budgens) is that they are virtually the same. I would prefer one to be more up-, or down-, market than the other. I think that had Budgens gone to Aldi or Lidl, then the Co-op (a much nice, cleaner shop IMHO) would have extended its range a bit upwards. They would have complimented each other nicely.
On another point, are we about to lose Thresher's - I see they are in receivership with 1000's of staff being laid off nationally. Bad luck and sympathy to them, if so.
"So, exactly what is it that you can't buy in Swanage?" There is no where to buy decent wine for a start.
Its amazing that so many people seem to manage to do all their shopping locally, and seem to be quite healthy and surviving very well.
Swanage has local meat, local fish, local veg, local flour, there are Purbeck microbreweries popping up, hopefully soon we will have our own source of renewable energy.
If there is something that is needed in Swanage, then open a shop and sell it.
"There is no where to buy decent wine for a start."
Where do you go? I would welcome a recommendation as I tend to agree.
'Threshers group’s collapse may mean 3,000 job losses
KPMG, the administrator, has conceded that up to half of Threshers’ 1,200 off-licences may have to close'
Will ours close? That leaves only the supermarkets in town for wine.
Swanage has local meat, local fish, local veg, local flour, there are Purbeck microbreweries popping up, hopefully soon we will have our own source of renewable energy.
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I agree with you, but many people find that the prices being charged locally are considerably higher than in the larger supermarket chains. Those with transport shop weekly at Asda or Tesco in Poole, and top up locally.
I agree that supermarkets cannot match the quality found in our local butchers, fishmongers and greengrocers, and the extra cost (if any) is well justified. But, as examples, I cannot justify why a can of Heinz baked beans, Flora, or Tropicana orange juice cost 25% more in Swanage than Asda in Poole. If I to pass by these shops when on other business, I will stop and do the bulk of my weekly shopping there.
I know it is a separate issue but I do wonder why people buy brands like these. You are simply paying for the marketing expenditure that has persuaded you to buy the stuff. The tactic is to be very cheap for a few highly promoted lines and make it up on things that are regarded as less price sensitive. If you want to save go to Lidl or Aldi. The former's expresso coffee is about half the price of the leading brands and, to my knackered old taste buds, as good, smoked salmon is about the same for 200gms as you pay for 100 elsewhere. My caveat is avoid some of their very cheapest UK made stuff. A consumer survey a few years ago placed them behind Waitrose for quality but above the others.
Good points.
I simply do not understand why the Co-op and Budgens have to overcharge for basic goceries. This compels those with transport to do the bulk of their shopping at Tescos et al.
I remember Jack Cohen's (founder of Tesco, the UK's largest retailer and third largest global retailer) adage: "pile it high, sell it cheap". Make a profit through volume. The Co-op and Budgens work on the principle of 'stick it to those who can't get to Tesco'. If they offered groceries at fair prices, they would increase turnover which is vitally important in food retailing. We could do with a price war between those two.
The Swanage Co-op is often cheaper than the Wareham one. Supermarkets charge what they think the market can bear. The large chains spend a vast amount telling us how cheap they are. Take it with a pinch of (sea) salt. It is very much about luring you in with some loss leaders and plundering your purse when you buy other things. It is rather more complicated than pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap. Jack Cohen's breakthrough came when he looked at American supermarkets and followed the model of concentrating on the appearance of the food while making sure the taste was so bland nobody would be offended.
Unfortunately taste has very little to do with marketing food. Look at how firms like Cadbury concentrate on the texture of their products and make something so underpowered that it is against the law in most countries to describe it as chocolate. Most people don't mind, or even notice.
While I appreciate your comments, I still maintain that the Co-op and Budgens overcharge, particularly the essentials. If nothing else, they lack the breadth of range that permits comparative shopping commensurate with that found at Tesco, Asda or a large Sainsbury's.
Tell you what. Make a list of 20 day-to-day items (no fudging - things like Fairy Liquid, Heinz beans, Flora margarine etc. No checking prices first!) and I will price them at (1) the Co-op Swanage(2) Budgens Swanage (3) Tesco Tower Park and (4) Asda Poole. All on the same day. We will see if my contention is rubbish! (I would be ecstatic if Swanage was cheaper!!) If you are right, I will reveal who I am and buy you a pint of good local ale!!
It would be really useful if someone would post prices at the various shops. I don't think it should be me as we tend not to buy the national brands as they offer such poor value. What about the price of fresh fruit and veg? By the way, Tropicana is £2.14 at the co-op but the own brand is 2 for £2.50. I did not check Budgen as their prices are a joke, e.g. Sharwoods noodles £1.60 compared with £1.19 at the co-op.
By the way Budgens smells fresher which could just possibly relate to a visit from environmental health.
1.75 litre Tropicana is 2 quid at Asda. The price you quote at the Co-op is for one litre.
It's easier to shop loally of course if ou are shopping for a couple or a small family but it's far too expensive for large families. I prefer to buy in bulk too, which is impossible in Swanage, and always look for the special offers in Tescos (especially on things like washing powder and toilet roll which you can only buy in small containers in C0-op). Buying in bulk means less packaging and fewer trips as well as being considerably cheaper.
http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=97&Itemid=110
Ottery St Mary
Tesco has bought a vacant factory plot at St Saviour's, Ottery St Mary. Residents and the town's Chamber of Commerce, are concerned that a supermarket will "drain the resources of the town". Ottery is a vibrant market town with many independent traders. A group "Sustainable Ottery" is opposing the plans. Over 150 people attended a public meeting organised by the group on Friday 9th January 2009. Please see an article in devon24.co.uk, 12th January 2009 for coverage of the meeting.
Sainsbury's also wants to build a store of around 20,000 sq ft in Hind Street on a Council owned car park. In July 2009 Tesco confirmed that its plans in Ottery had taken a back-seat while it focused on its Seaton application. But in October 2009 it submitted an application. Residents have until the 6th November to submit objections. Please see an article at thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk, 27th October 2009.
At the end of October Ottery Town Council formally voted against the proposal. Please see an article at devon24.co.uk, 2nd November 2009.
Read more... it could happen here in Swanage
Ask Government to support town centres and local shops
Proposals for a new set of planning rules could make it even easier for supermarkets to set up shop. The new proposals are called PPS 4: Planning for Prosperous Economies. They prioritise a narrow pursuit of economic growth over vibrant, environmentally-friendly communities.
It is vital that Government commits to sustainable communities and the support of town centre first policy. This means giving priority to creating flourishing town centres - and the presumption against out-of-town developments.
The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, John Denham, is in overall charge of planning policy. Please ask your MP to call on Mr Denham to commit to sustainable and thriving local communities. Please follow this link to send an email to your MP.
Do we really need town centres in the sense of an area dominated by retailers in the middle of the town? Their existing form derives from the characteristics of nineteenth century public transport systems which fed into a centre. We now use a road system that feeds a grid of peripheral locations. You will notice that John Lewis did not choose the centre of Poole or Bournemouth for its new store. I think town centres for retail are a lost cause. We find ourselves using the centre of Poole and Bournemouth very infrequently and town edge locations weekly. Judging by the sorry state of Poole High Street last week we are not the only ones.
My tuppence worth; I appreciate what people have said about feeling ripped off by the co-op and budgens, but I believe that food 'piled high and sold cheap' is actually artificially cheap. The big boys are able to keep prices really low by using a combination of strong-arm tactics with producers, intensive farming, sourcing food globally, and using hyper-efficient distribution systems (amongst others).
Even if you think that putting cheap food on Purbeck plates at any cost is OK the whole system is dependent on cheap fuel to work, and there are signs that we are currently living in the last years of the era of cheap oil.
Sticking another large store into Wareham will inevitably shrink the local food economy still further, leaving the area more vulnerable to price spikes brought about by rising fuel costs.
Supermarkets aren't a natural evolution of food retail; they're a fossil-fuel induced blip. Don't let them damage what you have left!
To learn more about the issues affecting our local food economy, check out the BBC documentary A Farm for the Future to be shown on 8th December at Dorchester County Museum, Dorchester, 7pm (doors open 6.30). Admission is free, courtesy of Transition Town Dorchester.
You don't seriously think that we, as a society and economy, are going to give up personal mechanised transport just because something to replace fossil fuels has to be found do you?
Not if we have any alternative, but who says we're going to? Biodiesel, solar, mains-driven, hydrogen; yes. But what do you think will happen to the price per mile once fossil fuels start figure smaller in the mix?
You don't seriously think that we, as a society and economy, are going to give up personal mechanised transport just because something to replace fossil fuels has to be found do you?
But will alternatives be found and up and running sucessfully before the price of petrol goes up so much that many people can't afford. What happens then. Say if we have shopped in Tescos and elsewhere and not supported our local shops and all of our shops here close, will we be able to afford to drive to Poole or Bournemouth.
Tell you what. Make a list of 20 day-to-day items (no fudging - things like Fairy Liquid, Heinz beans, Flora margarine etc. No checking prices first!) and I will price them at (1) the Co-op Swanage(2) Budgens Swanage (3) Tesco Tower Park and (4) Asda Poole. All on the same day. We will see if my contention is rubbish! (I would be ecstatic if Swanage was cheaper!!) If you are right, I will reveal who I am and buy you a pint of good local ale!!
And what about factoring in your time and petrol to get there and back? and cost to the environment too. Personally I pay myself for the time it takes to drive. Time could be used better one thinks.
A good idea but it would need to have the own brand equivalents and include Aldi and Lidl to be particularly helpful. The big firms are well known for researching which lines people remember the price of and reducing these and I can't help thinking your list would largely consist of these. If any of us can concoct this sort of list so can Tesco. Nonetheless it would be a worthwhile exercise. Asda can be very cheap for quite unexpected things. Here are a few suggestions, avoiding heavily promoted brands. I can't see the point of trying to save on stuff where you are paying for huge marketing spend when there are alternatives that cost less.
Expresso ground coffee
unsalted butter
braeburn or pink lady apples
large packs of loo paper
orange juice (both long life and chilled)
tinned tuna
smoked salmon
farmhouse cheddar
free range chicken
As you can see this is a bit mixed and random to cover a range of tastes and budgets.
good start - should we also stipulate that everything be same size/quantity and if possible compare both a leading brand (e.g. McVities Choc Digestives) as well a own brand (Tesco Choc Digies)?
Let's also add:
1 head iceburg lettuce
5 kgs potatoes
1 litre Coke
1 Fairy Liquid
1 Flora marg
Dozen free range eggs
Bag Whiskas dry cat food
1 Loaf Thick Sliced Hovis
1 bottle Heinz ketchup
Persil washing powder
Any others?
Large sliced wholemeal, both own brand and and an expensive one
oranges of various types
other fresh fruit and veg
But the supermarket chains make their money on the other bots and pieces we buy, the packet of expensive green tea, the Belgian chocolates and other little indulgences. Thats where the margin is.
And booze and ciggies
Well, I had a little trolley dash around Asda down in Weymouth. Dear oh dear, notices everywhere saying how cheap things were and frequent verbal interruptions to the overly intrusive background music with the same message. If only I had been able to find the bargains. I only wanted a few items. Jacobs Creek wines seemed to be very much the same as here. Baby corn and sugar snap peas were only a quid which is indeed much better than the one twenty something in the co-op and two for three pounds in Budgen, bean sprouts 50p which is what it used to be in somerfield, however, unsalted butter 97p and tuna steaks 95. Fresh basil 1.50 something. I betook myself across town to Lidl. Blessed relief, no canned music, not many shoppers to get in the way either. Unsalted butter 84p, tuna steak either 75 or 95 depending on whether it was in salty water or oil. Basil was 99p if my memory serves but I can be corrected on this. Jacobs Creek not available but a bottle of New Zealand white was 5.99. Plonk from about 2.99. No ciggies. Sirloin steaks a little over 14 pound the kilo in both, a bit beyond my budget for tonight.
Conclusion, Asda had an inpresively wide range of ready meals and jars of ready made cook-in sauces but, for what I wanted was not particularly cheap. Lidl ahead on points then. Totally different set of shoppers, Lidl seems to attract a mixture of poor people, students and the lumpen bourgeoisie, Asda quite middle of the road, looking for perceived value perhaps. Yer makes yer choice and pays yer money as it were.
Me thinks you could have save an awful lot of money and cost to the environment, if you had shopped locally, and wandered through the Purbeck Producers stalls, or through the aisles of the Co op chatting to friends along the way.
Does shopping in Asda or Lidles support the local economy? Who will complain when all the local shops close. I hope not you.
I had to go over there for other reasons as it happens so took the opportunity. I normally shop in the Swanage Co-op and indeed meet a good many friends there. I am not a fan of mega sized supermarkets or heavily promoted national brands from mega sized corporations either.
Where are the purbeck producers stalls in Swanage? Are you suggesting enough food can be grown in close proximity to the town to keep us supplied? I am not sure whether you are talking about growing food locally or buying it from local shops.
Most of the local food shops closed a good many years ago although there is some revival lately. Robsons, the Home and Colonial, The International Stores and even Stevens the Butcher are distant memories. The process began when the owner of the Ritz cinema saw the writing on the wall and turned it into a supermarket.
This is a bit plus de la meme chose. I recalled the golden age of lots of food shops half a century ago and mentioned Home and Colonial and International. When I did a little research I discovered that the former ended up owned by the Safeway company and the latter by Somerfield. We have a co-op because they bought Safeway's small stores while the Swanage one was being built so the co-op is in fact the descendant of a shop in the High Street. There was also a co-op grocers where the dry cleaner and shop next door to that are now. International morphed into Somerfield and has shifted from what is now Leonards gift shop to Station road. The continuity is quite striking. Where though is the contemporary version of Montague Purchase? How many can recall the smell of roasting coffee drifting down Station Road? Did anyone have the courage to buy a tin of locusts in chocolate from the highest shelf on the grocery side?
OK-
Today 1 iceberg lettuce at ASDA = 89p
1 Iceberg lettuce at Budgens = 139 p.m.
Game, set, match. Budgens and the Co-op rip off locals.
Buy a weekly W&D bus pass and take the Swanage to Poole bus to Asda in Poole, or Asda at Bournemouth Interchange. Take the free Asda to Poole bus station shuttle for a free look around the shops. Surf the internet for free at Poole Public Library. Visit Poole Museum (free). Do your banking. Get prescriptions filled at Asda. Or take the bus to Tower Park for a matinee movie (475 p) and shop at Tesco. Meanwhile enjoy the bus (it is warm, with nice views of Corfe Castle or Sandbanks ferry, interesting (?) fellow passengers, and about the same time a car takes). Save the environmment, save money, have a day out and some fun!
How could shopping at Budgens be better than this - for more money?
Only one till operator on duty today at 4.30 - they are struggling. And what a dirty store, with limited (overpriced) stock on sale. Depressing. The Coop is at least bright and clean(er), if no less expensive.
Its compulsory pesto sauce here, two pots of growing basil £1.48 at Lidl. Not much less than that each over here. How much is Asda smoked salmon? I paid £2.69 for for 200gms at the aforesaid German establishment which buys you half that locally. Managed to resist the Belgian chocolate shells at £1.39 a box but not the duck. Pheasants were absurdly expensive though at £8 compared with £3.40 in Swanage. So there we are. You have to live on pheasant here!
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